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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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so let's state it real clear here on

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last week's episode the power cast Chris

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and I said that we're going to change

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the logo for our show the reason being

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that the hand looks cool

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nice looking hand but it looks too close

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to the logo for the TV show fringe we

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were there first we're not going to try

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to sue Fox JJ Abrams we're just going to

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change our logo so we asked for

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contributions and we've gotten some

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pretty good ones I think we might even

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have one already that is going to be v1

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but we're not closing the door yet two

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more submissions so if you think you

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have a good logo send it to us send us

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the artwork a sample a rough the

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complete thing to news at the power cask

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Omni was at the power cast calm is there

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a matter of fact one of our contributors

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sent and this is interesting because we

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had just recorded the episode featuring

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Joshua Shapiro the expert on the Crystal

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Skull so we see a power cast logo with a

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blue background and what looks to be a

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Crystal Skull

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imagine that synchronicity yep you would

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be proud my wife though looked at the

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thing and said you know what it looks

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like something from the Terminator well

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we got our eyes on a couple of shows

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we'd like to terminate so maybe it's

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appropriate well I'll tell you what

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there's a lot of TV shows it got

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terminated this past season some I liked

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some I didn't but this is not a show

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about your favorite TV show although I

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kind of like human target why to me and

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the Chicago code on Fox all terminated

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with extreme prejudice

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no didn't see any of them Chicago code

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was good Jennifer Beals plays the police

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superintendent and you know she's

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watchable in many ways so it was a very

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fascinating cut she thought she could

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cuff me well I won't tell her that

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she'll think it's some kind of sexist

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remark there was a liberal talk-show

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host name of ed Schultz who was

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terminated for one week from his TV

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network because he called a conservative

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talk show host a

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well some she probably is oh I have to

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see their call coming from Ted Anderson

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and GCN about what he's

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determinate about us well he was gonna

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do that let me guess who he was talking

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about some tall lanky blonde I would

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imagine right Laura Ingraham oh she's on

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another TV network another radio network

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she's on Fox News and also the Salem

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radio network

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it's a rival Network so we can certainly

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attack people on rifle networks right

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well we don't really want to attack

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anybody in the world from the Rodney

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Rodney King school right can't we just

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get along yeah except for ghost to ghost

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on Clear Channel oh okay

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that's where our assumptions to every

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rule you know there was a post in our

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forums at forum podcast calm where they

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actually mention the shows that became

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train wrecks where after an hour bill

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now hangs up the phone on us Steve

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Bassett the X Conference guy has a bit

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of a meltdown Steven Greer becoming

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angry at us because we asked him a

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question Michael to the Meyer Horne

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of course He Who Shall Not Be Named that

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certainly was one then we had a couple

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of lesser meltdowns when we started

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asking Anthony Sanchez some serious

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questions about UFOs and he didn't know

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them and then he got out of the field

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two days later he had his shall we say

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posthumous meltdown delayed reaction

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kind of time released a time-released

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meltdown

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well we record these shows in advance so

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I guess it leaves a room for

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time-release meltdown on our previous

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episode we asked some tough questions of

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Joshua Shapiro about the Crystal Skull

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and I gather from the questions you ask

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that you accept some of this crystal

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skull lore but some of the things he

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said were a little bit out there is that

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correct mmm that's correct I you know

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again as I explained on the episode I've

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done quite a bit of research into the

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whole crystal skull mystery and because

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a glass skull was found in the San Luis

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Valley so it turned out to be a hoax

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which I debunked and but in the meantime

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I was quite fascinated with a lot of the

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information that I would die

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I spoke with the preeminent expert in

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the field at the time Nick no siree no

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and I became very fascinated with the

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whole subject and since then I've you

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know whenever I've had a chance to see

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one of the the more notorious I guess

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for lack of a better word one of the

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more notorious goals I have taken the

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opportunity to go see several of them

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and they are very fascinating very

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beautiful artifacts what they actually

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mean how they have created a cult of

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personality around themselves

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you know just interesting when people

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people project enough into physical

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objects they can literally gain a life

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of their own I'm reminded of course of

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the the very action excellent book

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called the secret life of inanimate

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objects by Lyle Watson I recommend it to

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all our listeners inanimate objects can

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become power objects if enough attention

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and and belief is is projected into them

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so it was really fascinating to hear

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Joshua expound on his whole belief

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system that he's sort of created around

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the whole concept of the skulls and and

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and he has a deeply personal

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relationship with his his own crystal

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skull and I we could have really we

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could have dug a little deeper and

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really started crying foul and on some

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of his you know projections so his kind

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of generalizations about the whole thing

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but but it was fascinating to listen to

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somebody who has spent so many years

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studying this mystery and I think our

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listeners will learn a lot from this

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segment one thing about it here I think

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part of the problem is not that there

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aren't fascinating properties about

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crystal skulls but he sold himself on

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the prospects of some kind of paranormal

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aspect to them and he really believes it

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doesn't mean there isn't such a thing

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but I think it's hard sometimes to

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separate your belief from the reality so

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we don't know whether it's something

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that he's infusing into the crystal

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skull because of his belief they does

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something magical or it exists

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externally

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that's the mystery and I thought he was

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maybe you know kind of eating his own

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dog food they're acting a little bit too

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gullible about it which is unfortunate

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because if there's any mystery to it at

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all we can't ask scientists to go ahead

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and disprove it we have to prove it

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first

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exactly yeah the onus is on the the

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believer to bring enough data forward

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that woody intrigue scientist enough to

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get involved and maybe there was a way

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to do that but not if you already

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prejudge what results you're going to

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get yeah crystal the crystal skull like

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kool-aid yeah he drank the kool-aid and

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he was sold a little too much nice guy

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though really nicely nice guy yeah and

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obviously he knows his lore he knows

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about the history of these things it's

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just that we really need people who have

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no opinion one way of the other to look

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at it measure it see if there's any way

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to create as you and I said a

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double-blind test to confirm whether or

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not there is some mystical property or

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if it's just a fascinating piece of

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artwork which itself is interesting

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because you have to look at the

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technology that might have been used to

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create them a thousand or 2,000 years

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ago with so-called primitive implements

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you know yeah I still think the subject

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deserves research and some scientific

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scrutiny I do think that there's a real

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possibility that these objects could

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have some sort of inherent properties

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which we have yet to really define and

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I'll leave it at that

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this week we're gonna go back to the

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conspiracy theory realm and we focus on

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that a few weeks ago we had former

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governor Jesse Ventura one of our best

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received episodes yet and it was

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fascinating that he dug it you know you

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kind of think after a whole day of

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dealing with the press Jesse Ventura had

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gotten tired of it he told us before the

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episode his arm was bothering him and

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everything

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two hours later he loved it you can tell

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from the last 30 seconds but the first

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conspiracy theory expert we brought on

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the show lowly as many years ago back in

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2006

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Kenneth F Thomas and he's a guy who you

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know kind of covers it all well he sure

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does this is gonna be fun indeed he's

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gonna talk about a reissuing of his book

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on the Maury Island incident we're going

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to focus on all the various and sundry

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conspiracies the latest and greatest now

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understand because as a conspiracy

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theory doesn't mean that you shouldn't

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take the conventional wisdom response is

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true but it opens up lots of incredible

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possibilities Kenneth Thomas coming up

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next on the very cast okay so who is

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license numbers g'day Jim newcomer for-

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ounce gold coin can be purchased for

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ounce that's fifteen seventy nineteen

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seven 8509 and three ninety 258 the

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been reduced to old relics politicians

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with their outlandish overreaching

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policies your support for the campaign

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for Liberty stands in the way of this

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Anderson

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I have teamed up with a campaign for

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don't forget to visit our famous pair of

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conspiracy-theory time again on the para

317
00:14:51,650 --> 00:14:49,200
cast and on episode number five back in

318
00:14:55,220 --> 00:14:51,660
two thousand six listen to this ladies

319
00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:55,230
and gentlemen april 4th 2006 we couldn't

320
00:15:00,050 --> 00:14:57,510
do it for April Fool's Day we had

321
00:15:02,330 --> 00:15:00,060
Kenneth F Thomas to talk about Maury

322
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:02,340
island the Kennedy assassination all

323
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:05,010
that stuff fascinating interviewees come

324
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:07,170
on once or twice since then and we

325
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:08,850
thought you know after all these years

326
00:15:14,060 --> 00:15:11,130
it's time to bring them back because as

327
00:15:17,780 --> 00:15:14,070
he said himself he's one of the founding

328
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:17,790
fathers of the show now that what does

329
00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:23,970
that get you a lot of guff I guess god I

330
00:15:34,010 --> 00:15:31,350
feel so old five years ago you're so old

331
00:15:36,020 --> 00:15:34,020
you forgot four years missing son

332
00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:36,030
ninety-nine generations in the fiber

333
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:38,110
terms alright is that how it works

334
00:15:43,310 --> 00:15:41,250
[Laughter]

335
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:43,320
for those who haven't explored Kenneth F

336
00:15:47,690 --> 00:15:45,510
Thomas and his books and articles and

337
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:47,700
steam shovel press and everything can

338
00:15:52,010 --> 00:15:50,010
you tell us what attracted you to I

339
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:52,020
guess the realm of disbelief about

340
00:15:57,860 --> 00:15:55,410
conventional wisdom well the obvious

341
00:16:00,680 --> 00:15:57,870
that conventional wisdom is anything but

342
00:16:02,270 --> 00:16:00,690
wise and you only have to study it for a

343
00:16:06,050 --> 00:16:02,280
brief period of time before you begin

344
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:06,060
realizing that but my earliest interest

345
00:16:11,510 --> 00:16:09,570
in counterculture stuff was letting

346
00:16:12,950 --> 00:16:11,520
Bruce you know the comedy of Lenny Bruce

347
00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:12,960
which I was turned on to by watching

348
00:16:16,190 --> 00:16:14,910
Dustin Hoffman which shows you go to

349
00:16:19,070 --> 00:16:16,200
johnny-come-lately I am to the

350
00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:19,080
counterculture and Lenny Bruce's quote

351
00:16:23,150 --> 00:16:20,940
autobiography was actually ghosted by

352
00:16:25,070 --> 00:16:23,160
Paul Krassner a famous underground

353
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:25,080
publisher of the newsletter called the

354
00:16:28,260 --> 00:16:26,050
realist

355
00:16:30,930 --> 00:16:28,270
and Paul was an associate of may

356
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:30,940
Brussels who is the Maven of conspiracy

357
00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:33,970
theorists and the really the person that

358
00:16:37,740 --> 00:16:36,550
at all the major people like John judge

359
00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:37,750
for instance with a coalition for

360
00:16:43,050 --> 00:16:40,270
political assassinations in DC tutored

361
00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:43,060
under under may Brussels and she kind of

362
00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:46,390
almost invented the science of what I

363
00:16:49,889 --> 00:16:48,910
call para political studies because I

364
00:16:51,449 --> 00:16:49,899
try to stay away from the term

365
00:16:53,850 --> 00:16:51,459
conspiracy theory because it's like a

366
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:53,860
media laughs handle you know I kind of

367
00:16:58,800 --> 00:16:56,170
use it as a way of connecting what you

368
00:17:00,780 --> 00:16:58,810
do to the subjects so people understand

369
00:17:04,020 --> 00:17:00,790
what we're coming from it's not meant by

370
00:17:07,740 --> 00:17:04,030
deliverator what no insult intended

371
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:07,750
I like Ken's term para politics I think

372
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:10,329
it has a real ring to it

373
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:11,770
that's the one we use as a matter of

374
00:17:16,679 --> 00:17:13,990
fact when we first had you on the show

375
00:17:18,270 --> 00:17:16,689
yeah well that prefix para means to run

376
00:17:20,699 --> 00:17:18,280
alongside so you talk about the

377
00:17:23,970 --> 00:17:20,709
paranormal you're talking about things

378
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:23,980
events creatures stuff that runs

379
00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:27,970
alongside normal reality para politic

380
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:29,350
you know politics is when you vote for

381
00:17:33,660 --> 00:17:32,080
people and you know you have an election

382
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:33,670
and the elected person para politics

383
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,370
those kinds of politics that run

384
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:38,559
alongside that normal process

385
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:42,370
assassinations conspiracies subterfuge

386
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,530
sabotage all those little dirty tricks

387
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:46,480
so the useful prefix

388
00:17:50,669 --> 00:17:48,370
okay so haven't gotten involved in this

389
00:17:52,830 --> 00:17:50,679
was there a specific event in history

390
00:17:57,570 --> 00:17:52,840
that you say you know what what people

391
00:17:58,860 --> 00:17:57,580
say about this event can't be true well

392
00:18:00,780 --> 00:17:58,870
I was five years old when Kennedy was

393
00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:00,790
assassinated you know so the long

394
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:02,470
history of dissembling was just kind of

395
00:18:07,140 --> 00:18:05,200
unfolded in front of me in my life you

396
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:07,150
know nothing that they said really added

397
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:10,480
up to what I understood the facts to be

398
00:18:15,570 --> 00:18:14,170
so if you want a pin down one particular

399
00:18:17,910 --> 00:18:15,580
event

400
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:17,920
it's the Kennedy assassination from the

401
00:18:23,549 --> 00:18:21,070
11th 1963 all right what about the

402
00:18:26,190 --> 00:18:23,559
Kennedy assassination what factor caused

403
00:18:28,919 --> 00:18:26,200
you to become skeptical that it was just

404
00:18:32,669 --> 00:18:28,929
a lone crazed gunman named Lee Harvey

405
00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:32,679
Oswald well when you're 5 years old you

406
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:33,670
don't really think about it that much

407
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,770
but it's clear even to a 5 year old but

408
00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:36,880
this isn't the way things are supposed

409
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:38,390
to proceed

410
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:41,690
you know this is the first major

411
00:18:46,210 --> 00:18:44,090
political assassination in my lifetime

412
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:46,220
and I was kind of used to a normal

413
00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:48,890
existence before that and you know it's

414
00:18:51,940 --> 00:18:50,150
only five years later that Robert

415
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:51,950
Kennedy was assassinated Martin Luther

416
00:18:56,260 --> 00:18:54,410
King was assassinated and and anybody

417
00:19:00,250 --> 00:18:56,270
growing up in that period it's just got

418
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:00,260
it hardwired into them that this is not

419
00:19:05,890 --> 00:19:03,200
the way it's supposed to be you know you

420
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:05,900
you have you born to be skeptical you

421
00:19:08,890 --> 00:19:07,610
know nobody ever really believed the

422
00:19:11,050 --> 00:19:08,900
Warren Commission you take a poll today

423
00:19:12,970 --> 00:19:11,060
90% of the people out there don't

424
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:12,980
doesn't believe the long Commission but

425
00:19:17,790 --> 00:19:15,200
the the government has eroded its own

426
00:19:20,650 --> 00:19:17,800
credibility over decades in my lifetime

427
00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:20,660
well this is one thing there didn't a

428
00:19:25,780 --> 00:19:23,990
congressional panel conclude years and

429
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:25,790
years ago that was possibly a conspiracy

430
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:26,570
involved there

431
00:19:31,870 --> 00:19:28,850
oh that's absolutely true yeah that was

432
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:31,880
the in the mid 70s there was a second

433
00:19:36,190 --> 00:19:33,290
there was a committee on assassinations

434
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:36,200
that concluded that in fact Kennedy died

435
00:19:43,020 --> 00:19:38,690
as a result of a conspiracy probably of

436
00:19:45,610 --> 00:19:43,030
mobsters because the person who ran that

437
00:19:49,030 --> 00:19:45,620
then investigative group Robert Blake he

438
00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:49,040
was a specialist in mafia history so lo

439
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:50,780
and behold boom and his reality tunnel

440
00:19:56,140 --> 00:19:54,050
the Mafia did it and and that was a

441
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:56,150
formal conclusion so even today the

442
00:19:59,290 --> 00:19:57,650
government actually has two formal

443
00:20:02,620 --> 00:19:59,300
conclusions the Warren Commission but it

444
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:02,630
was a lone nut and the assassinations

445
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:04,970
Canady Commission that it was the mob

446
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:08,450
now the Commission turned its findings

447
00:20:11,890 --> 00:20:09,890
over to the Justice Department which

448
00:20:14,890 --> 00:20:11,900
just did nothing about it just let it

449
00:20:18,220 --> 00:20:14,900
just let it pass there was so there was

450
00:20:20,830 --> 00:20:18,230
never an official further investigation

451
00:20:22,990 --> 00:20:20,840
of who those monsters were or you know

452
00:20:26,830 --> 00:20:23,000
or a collection of any of the data that

453
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:26,840
really that indicates with a concretely

454
00:20:30,370 --> 00:20:29,090
that that was so the recommendations

455
00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:30,380
were all there and then the ball was

456
00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:33,320
dropped that would now yeah we were

457
00:20:38,020 --> 00:20:35,630
saying yeah yeah unfortunately were left

458
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:38,030
now with in terms of official government

459
00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:41,600
conclusions two explanations just like

460
00:20:46,750 --> 00:20:44,510
with Roswell you know that air crash

461
00:20:48,820 --> 00:20:46,760
dummies and project mogul there's also

462
00:20:50,169 --> 00:20:48,830
the solder now 51

463
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:50,179
excuse me there's also this book of

464
00:20:54,749 --> 00:20:53,210
area 51 that has yet another delusion

465
00:20:58,239 --> 00:20:54,759
about this

466
00:21:01,090 --> 00:20:58,249
hey this Jacobson's book this new yo yes

467
00:21:02,919 --> 00:21:01,100
yeah I saw that in an airport over the

468
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:02,929
weekend I flipped through it I had some

469
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:04,850
interesting pictures there like JFK at

470
00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:08,090
area 25 things like that but what

471
00:21:15,310 --> 00:21:12,230
conclusion is it's reaching now well I

472
00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:15,320
think it's talking about something we

473
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:18,590
did to kind of stage this to kind of

474
00:21:25,899 --> 00:21:23,570
spook the Russians I thought they staged

475
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:25,909
it to spook guts because all right let's

476
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:28,369
one way or the other it was basically

477
00:21:33,340 --> 00:21:30,369
someone being spooked by the Russians

478
00:21:36,369 --> 00:21:33,350
using children made up to look like

479
00:21:39,580 --> 00:21:36,379
space people it seems also peculiar well

480
00:21:41,739 --> 00:21:39,590
German there's no book by Jacobson yeah

481
00:21:45,549 --> 00:21:41,749
because I'm very surprised you know it's

482
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:45,559
a little brown a major publishing farm

483
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:48,080
it's one of the big books you know it's

484
00:21:51,549 --> 00:21:49,490
a mainstream book you buy it at an

485
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:51,559
airport and look to me like it would

486
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:53,600
have well I actually I guess that does

487
00:21:56,259 --> 00:21:54,799
make sense you know they're trying to

488
00:21:57,820 --> 00:21:56,269
cover up the alien angle and they're

489
00:22:01,210 --> 00:21:57,830
saying that it's Russians and children's

490
00:22:02,879 --> 00:22:01,220
I don't know I as I recall I was flipped

491
00:22:06,489 --> 00:22:02,889
through the index to see if household

492
00:22:10,450 --> 00:22:06,499
was listed because your if you remember

493
00:22:13,539 --> 00:22:10,460
Oswald's biography he he was stationed

494
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:13,549
at in that through Japan where the u2's

495
00:22:18,190 --> 00:22:16,369
flew out of after he defected to the

496
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:18,200
Soviet Union somehow the Soviets had

497
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:20,690
information enough about the u2 to shoot

498
00:22:25,090 --> 00:22:24,110
down Gary Powers Oswald had a job right

499
00:22:26,830 --> 00:22:25,100
before he got the job of the Book

500
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:26,840
Depository he had a job with Jagger

501
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:29,360
Charles Stovall a photographic firm that

502
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:31,850
processed you to film so Oswald was some

503
00:22:35,499 --> 00:22:33,440
kind of an agent connected to the u2

504
00:22:38,139 --> 00:22:35,509
program and the u2 program was developed

505
00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:38,149
at area 51 and I was looking for that in

506
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:39,529
Jacobson's book to see if it you know if

507
00:22:43,269 --> 00:22:41,570
she made any of those connections that I

508
00:22:45,159 --> 00:22:43,279
didn't find it like I said I haven't

509
00:22:46,389 --> 00:22:45,169
studied it very closely we might have

510
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:46,399
her on the show in the future we're

511
00:22:50,499 --> 00:22:48,110
going to have to explore it we have

512
00:22:52,930 --> 00:22:50,509
power political expert Kenneth Thomas

513
00:23:02,130 --> 00:22:52,940
I'm gene Steinberg the co-host is Chris

514
00:23:07,789 --> 00:23:04,720
[Music]

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569
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570
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571
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572
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574
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590
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591
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asleep at his desk like he used to

592
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593
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all day he used to be gloomy now he's

594
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600
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610
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613
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in the morning are you tired of

614
00:27:06,409 --> 00:27:04,440
searching for great talk radio are you

615
00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:06,419
more important search

616
00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:12,169
we are the GCM radio network

617
00:27:19,340 --> 00:27:15,480
hi this make PO purely thing to the

618
00:27:21,979 --> 00:27:19,350
parrot job Chris O'Brien's a co-host I'm

619
00:27:25,220 --> 00:27:21,989
gene Steinberg I'm the para cast one of

620
00:27:28,009 --> 00:27:25,230
our earliest guests returns Kenneth

621
00:27:29,869 --> 00:27:28,019
Thomas who studies para politics we

622
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:29,879
won't call them conspiracy theories

623
00:27:34,669 --> 00:27:33,450
because this is far more intriguing we

624
00:27:36,919 --> 00:27:34,679
went back to the Kennedy assassination

625
00:27:39,859 --> 00:27:36,929
now a few weeks ago we had former

626
00:27:42,590 --> 00:27:39,869
governor Jesse Ventura and his claim to

627
00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:42,600
fame here is that he an expert shooter

628
00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:44,580
as opposed to Oswald being a marksman

629
00:27:51,129 --> 00:27:47,700
two levels below that try to use a

630
00:27:56,239 --> 00:27:51,139
similar rifle to make those three shots

631
00:27:58,039 --> 00:27:56,249
and he said he couldn't do it does he

632
00:28:00,200 --> 00:27:58,049
still have his program I haven't seen it

633
00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:00,210
in a long time I think it's going to

634
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,820
come back this fall okay I'm not quite

635
00:28:07,340 --> 00:28:04,799
sure what to make of Jesse you know when

636
00:28:10,009 --> 00:28:07,350
he's he's back to the wall of some of

637
00:28:11,899 --> 00:28:10,019
the major media interviews he'll say oh

638
00:28:13,369 --> 00:28:11,909
well this is just all entertainment as I

639
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:13,379
recall they very specifically put down

640
00:28:17,779 --> 00:28:15,570
one of his own guests as when he was was

641
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:17,789
being grilled I think by so that guy was

642
00:28:22,669 --> 00:28:20,100
at replace Larry King's Piers Morgan and

643
00:28:23,899 --> 00:28:22,679
and he said you know he was forget who

644
00:28:26,269 --> 00:28:23,909
the guest was but he very clearly

645
00:28:27,529 --> 00:28:26,279
started taking an anti conspiracy view

646
00:28:29,299 --> 00:28:27,539
and saying well this is just an

647
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:29,309
entertainment show and I think he kind

648
00:28:35,389 --> 00:28:32,220
of plays a role usually when you see

649
00:28:37,099 --> 00:28:35,399
somebody in the mainstream who's putting

650
00:28:39,349 --> 00:28:37,109
themselves out as a conspiracy theorist

651
00:28:40,399 --> 00:28:39,359
they're usually playing some kind of

652
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:40,409
role of a clown

653
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:41,609
you know Will Smith is another good

654
00:28:46,460 --> 00:28:44,159
example that Donald Trump you know well

655
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,470
Donald Trump especially on the other

656
00:28:51,289 --> 00:28:49,440
hand Jesse said some very great things

657
00:28:53,090 --> 00:28:51,299
you know I think he's it's really right

658
00:28:55,369 --> 00:28:53,100
on the money what I would want to know

659
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:55,379
from him though is about a sound of the

660
00:28:59,239 --> 00:28:57,210
mountains and the Dodman was killed by

661
00:29:00,979 --> 00:28:59,249
Navy SEALs and Jesse who used to be a

662
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:00,989
seal and is there anything about the

663
00:29:05,629 --> 00:29:03,600
fact that bin Laden would seem to have

664
00:29:08,359 --> 00:29:05,639
been shot right at the exact same spot

665
00:29:10,430 --> 00:29:08,369
JFK was shot in the temple and in fact

666
00:29:12,580 --> 00:29:10,440
RFK was shot in the temple from behind

667
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:12,590
is that some kind of signature

668
00:29:18,510 --> 00:29:16,080
professional hit place tequila person

669
00:29:21,030 --> 00:29:18,520
and in order if Jesse would know that

670
00:29:22,530 --> 00:29:21,040
interesting serious that is curious I

671
00:29:25,140 --> 00:29:22,540
didn't think about that because I'm not

672
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,150
a former Navy SEAL nor do I play one on

673
00:29:33,180 --> 00:29:30,000
by the way should say hi formally to

674
00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:33,190
Chris Chris long time to talk to man how

675
00:29:38,850 --> 00:29:35,950
you been hey this is great I've been ok

676
00:29:40,260 --> 00:29:38,860
I said ok and I was like I think last

677
00:29:42,570 --> 00:29:40,270
time I saw you was in Sedona one of

678
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,580
David Childress conferences yeah yeah it

679
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:44,320
was actually yeah well you do great work

680
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:46,330
man I love you mysterious valley book

681
00:29:53,070 --> 00:29:48,970
and I didn't realize you're on doTERRA

682
00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:53,080
Capital great fun going on my this is my

683
00:29:57,030 --> 00:29:55,780
50th show I think right but who's

684
00:30:00,150 --> 00:29:57,040
counting it's like you should be a guest

685
00:30:02,190 --> 00:30:00,160
more than a host well I'm working on

686
00:30:04,050 --> 00:30:02,200
both of them he kind of straddles the

687
00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:04,060
fence actually two weeks ago we kind of

688
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:06,430
had a talk shop episode where we just

689
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:08,970
talked back and forth our discussed our

690
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:11,770
various experiences and the things we've

691
00:30:17,490 --> 00:30:14,950
investigated and we answer questions and

692
00:30:19,710 --> 00:30:17,500
for a lot of it Chris was kind of a

693
00:30:22,410 --> 00:30:19,720
guest so in that case he kind of wore

694
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:22,420
the to hats which is fine because it's I

695
00:30:25,980 --> 00:30:23,710
think really good for the show it's

696
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:25,990
great for the show to have a seasoned

697
00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:28,090
investigator who knows where of he

698
00:30:33,210 --> 00:30:30,220
speaks come on here not just like crazy

699
00:30:35,130 --> 00:30:33,220
talk show host or somebody who's playing

700
00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:35,140
who's somebody who's a performance

701
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:37,630
artist who's is trying to pretend to be

702
00:30:45,690 --> 00:30:40,330
a talk show host and investigator he is

703
00:30:48,420 --> 00:30:45,700
a real thing and I think they like to

704
00:30:49,770 --> 00:30:48,430
see more of that well I'm having fun I'm

705
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:49,780
not sure if some of our listeners are

706
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:51,010
having fun I've been taking a lot of

707
00:30:56,190 --> 00:30:53,650
flack for drinking the kool-aid in the

708
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:56,200
eyes of some people but what a lot of a

709
00:31:01,500 --> 00:30:58,480
lot of our listeners don't realize is

710
00:31:04,830 --> 00:31:01,510
the older I get and the more my research

711
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:04,840
and and really dig into subjects you

712
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:06,730
know the more skeptical and conservative

713
00:31:11,940 --> 00:31:09,250
I think my view becomes and again I

714
00:31:13,890 --> 00:31:11,950
don't really buy a lot of what people

715
00:31:16,970 --> 00:31:13,900
really want to believe in especially in

716
00:31:19,890 --> 00:31:16,980
the realm of UFOs and the paranormal I

717
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:19,900
think there's a lot of room for for good

718
00:31:25,530 --> 00:31:22,810
scientific research and and just hard

719
00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:25,540
work and let the facts kind of play out

720
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:29,710
and give us the answers yeah common

721
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:31,930
sense dictates that not everything is a

722
00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:33,250
conspiracy

723
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,680
Robyn Ramsay who does lobster out of

724
00:31:41,420 --> 00:31:37,600
England one of the great political

725
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:41,430
lawyers in England Ramsay who's a

726
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:46,240
political writer in Britain has made the

727
00:31:49,530 --> 00:31:47,440
point before that things are a

728
00:31:52,650 --> 00:31:49,540
combination of conspiracy coincidences

729
00:31:54,330 --> 00:31:52,660
or mistakes and that's usually the case

730
00:31:55,470 --> 00:31:54,340
not everything is a conspiracy not

731
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:55,480
everything is a coincidence not

732
00:32:00,390 --> 00:31:57,610
everything is just a mistake but that

733
00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:00,400
old canard that oh well if the

734
00:32:03,390 --> 00:32:01,750
government's involved it can't be a

735
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:03,400
conspiracy and they can't get anything

736
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:07,290
done might be a nice kind of

737
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:09,910
broad-stroke way of presenting your

738
00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:11,200
position about what you think about

739
00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:12,790
government but we know for a fact that

740
00:32:16,890 --> 00:32:15,160
if I could do these things and they have

741
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:16,900
to pull off there are conspiracies and

742
00:32:19,890 --> 00:32:18,610
the government-run conspiracies that

743
00:32:22,140 --> 00:32:19,900
have taken place at Kennedy

744
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:22,150
assassination is a very clear one both

745
00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:24,250
Kennedy assassinations in fact let me

746
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:25,960
raise that because I think we should not

747
00:32:31,230 --> 00:32:28,510
let that drop we understand about the

748
00:32:33,330 --> 00:32:31,240
original Kennedy assassination why we

749
00:32:35,730 --> 00:32:33,340
could regard it as a conspiracy and why

750
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:35,740
certain conspiracies theories have sense

751
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:38,290
such as of course organized crime for

752
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:40,000
one reason or another and obviously all

753
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:41,440
the books explain that I won't get into

754
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:44,170
it here but what about Robert Kennedy's

755
00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:45,730
assassination what about that is

756
00:32:50,610 --> 00:32:48,190
conspiratorial to you oh I'm glad you

757
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:50,620
brought that out because just recently

758
00:32:56,340 --> 00:32:53,760
in the news here Xavier Hahn has finally

759
00:32:58,260 --> 00:32:56,350
admitted or not admitted because all

760
00:33:00,330 --> 00:32:58,270
this time he's really hasn't he's been

761
00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:00,340
in a fog about what he did that day that

762
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:02,590
Kennedy was shot he just basically said

763
00:33:07,740 --> 00:33:05,130
that he can't remember it but now he's

764
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:07,750
beginning to affirm the idea that he was

765
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:10,210
hypnotized into whatever role he played

766
00:33:14,790 --> 00:33:12,370
and that this woman in the polkadot

767
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:14,800
dress it was you know famous in the in

768
00:33:19,170 --> 00:33:16,450
the studies of the RFK assassination

769
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:19,180
although very not very well known to the

770
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:20,530
general public but that she was some

771
00:33:28,290 --> 00:33:25,510
kind of a trigger mechanism for him and

772
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:28,300
of course in his journals you know he's

773
00:33:30,750 --> 00:33:30,370
he writes very hypnotically over and

774
00:33:34,350 --> 00:33:30,760
over again

775
00:33:37,410 --> 00:33:34,360
RFK must die RFK must RFK must die and

776
00:33:39,090 --> 00:33:37,420
then like a Manchurian Candidate like a

777
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:39,100
veteran candidate and when he was jailed

778
00:33:44,250 --> 00:33:41,670
the person that came to visit him was

779
00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:44,260
was a joy in West I think who was a

780
00:33:47,930 --> 00:33:45,480
known MKULTRA

781
00:33:50,410 --> 00:33:47,940
and after he got his visit in jail we've

782
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:50,420
given his keyword after that he couldn't

783
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:53,310
couldn't really remember what he did now

784
00:33:58,070 --> 00:33:55,770
he constantly comes up for parole and

785
00:34:00,800 --> 00:33:58,080
one time I was I actually knew his

786
00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:00,810
defense attorney or the guy who's you

787
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:03,480
know his attorney to to go before the

788
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:06,210
parole board to try to to get him

789
00:34:10,940 --> 00:34:07,980
released a reduced sentence or whatever

790
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:10,950
the guys name was Marty cheaters and he

791
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:13,050
was going to present this defense I

792
00:34:15,919 --> 00:34:14,370
remember having this discussion with him

793
00:34:18,380 --> 00:34:15,929
he was going to present the mind control

794
00:34:19,730 --> 00:34:18,390
defense and I told him yeah you know

795
00:34:22,820 --> 00:34:19,740
it's pretty clear that's what happened

796
00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:22,830
here but gives me one instance where the

797
00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:24,390
mind control defense has ever worked in

798
00:34:28,250 --> 00:34:25,700
a court of law

799
00:34:30,130 --> 00:34:28,260
yeah I mean the most you come up with

800
00:34:33,890 --> 00:34:30,140
this may be the Twinkie defense in the

801
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:33,900
the Mosconi assassination but they don't

802
00:34:39,260 --> 00:34:37,110
want to hear it and now whoever whoever

803
00:34:40,909 --> 00:34:39,270
Aesir hunts attorneys now they're doing

804
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:40,919
the same thing they're going before the

805
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:42,330
parole board's they hear I was

806
00:34:45,770 --> 00:34:44,490
hypnotized and you know because that's

807
00:34:49,700 --> 00:34:45,780
really the only conclusion you can reach

808
00:34:51,590 --> 00:34:49,710
when you study the facts but it's not

809
00:34:53,690 --> 00:34:51,600
you know it's never really a credible

810
00:34:55,010 --> 00:34:53,700
defense it never really gets get you

811
00:34:59,420 --> 00:34:55,020
anything there's nothing fair on

812
00:35:01,550 --> 00:34:59,430
anything and now but the larger part of

813
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:01,560
the picture here is okay if he was a

814
00:35:08,650 --> 00:35:04,710
Manchurian Candidate so to speak he was

815
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:08,660
hypnotized undermine control who did it

816
00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:12,150
well there there are different series

817
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:15,110
same C's are the security guard for one

818
00:35:20,650 --> 00:35:18,090
but it's also very clear that whatever

819
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:20,660
fear haunted he was not in a position to

820
00:35:26,090 --> 00:35:22,890
shoot RFK

821
00:35:28,010 --> 00:35:26,100
where the bullet centers and in fact

822
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:28,020
when you see the pictures of RFK by like

823
00:35:32,660 --> 00:35:30,720
holding onto somebody's tie he like

824
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:32,670
turned around and grabbed the tie of

825
00:35:37,070 --> 00:35:35,730
this guy and I think I don't know if

826
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:37,080
this has been officially concluded but

827
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:39,690
it's supposedly the security guard guys

828
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:42,000
tie so see how it's shot but he didn't

829
00:35:49,610 --> 00:35:44,450
the powder burns that they discovered

830
00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:49,620
when they examine our case body were

831
00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:52,140
from the other side the worst fear han

832
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,660
was standing all right so the cut this

833
00:36:00,020 --> 00:35:56,400
chase here worse

834
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:00,030
here that maybe he did shoot a gun but

835
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:01,650
he isn't the person who actually killed

836
00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:04,110
RFK I guess that's what you're saying

837
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:05,940
we'll have to explore that more detail

838
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:06,630
in a moment

839
00:36:10,700 --> 00:36:08,850
before we split for that break if you

840
00:36:12,650 --> 00:36:10,710
have a comment or a question about the

841
00:36:15,410 --> 00:36:12,660
power cast we want to hear from you good

842
00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:15,420
bad or otherwise write us new is it the

843
00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:17,400
power cast calm once again that's news

844
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:19,980
at the power cast calm we especially

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want to hear from you with your ideas

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about our new para cast Pro service this

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is where we're going to for a small

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to be free the forums are free but we're

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going to offer extra content videos

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discussions and lots lots more on para

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cast Pro we welcome your ideas about it

854
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so write us we have Kenneth Thomas he

855
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studies para politics he has a

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publication called steam shovel press he

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has new book new version of his Maury

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island book coming out the co-host is

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Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

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in the Vera Ghost

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[Music]

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order online the site went down it just

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it returned but I'd already placed the

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order with another company if your site

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goes down you could lose business and if

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883
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918
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this is Ted Anderson have you ever

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Dermatol the Jay Z and Radio Network

938
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providing the world with hard-hitting

939
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talk radio

940
00:41:18,140 --> 00:41:15,809
see and great talk-radio starts here hi

941
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:18,150
this is no clear physicist or tourists

942
00:41:31,730 --> 00:41:29,630
paranormal radio now you have to realize

943
00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:31,740
that it's taken a while but Chris has

944
00:41:37,309 --> 00:41:34,710
finally learned the beat he's on the

945
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,319
beat you know and musicians and actors

946
00:41:41,420 --> 00:41:39,599
know this you have to be on the beat you

947
00:41:43,940 --> 00:41:41,430
have to know your Markel and so when I

948
00:41:53,150 --> 00:41:43,950
say you're in he's able to say now I

949
00:41:55,250 --> 00:41:53,160
can't do it he was ratcheting up for me

950
00:41:58,099 --> 00:41:55,260
doing it at the end of each segment and

951
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:58,109
this time I caught him off guard I

952
00:42:03,049 --> 00:42:01,200
wasn't ready that's a conspiracy theory

953
00:42:05,569 --> 00:42:03,059
in and of itself we have Kenneth wolf

954
00:42:07,819 --> 00:42:05,579
Thomas here before we get too far afield

955
00:42:10,910 --> 00:42:07,829
on the JFK assassination

956
00:42:12,799 --> 00:42:10,920
one thing that was extremely fascinating

957
00:42:14,660 --> 00:42:12,809
to me when I read when I first read you

958
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:14,670
Maury island book was a very mysterious

959
00:42:20,420 --> 00:42:18,089
character that crops up some pretty

960
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:20,430
unusual places including right smack-dab

961
00:42:24,260 --> 00:42:22,170
in the middle of the Mauri Island

962
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:24,270
incident and that's a very interesting

963
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:26,490
character named Fred Lee Chrisman you

964
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,369
want to speak about Chrisman and and

965
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:31,680
then maybe sort of dive into the Mori

966
00:42:36,260 --> 00:42:33,839
Island incident because there's been

967
00:42:37,970 --> 00:42:36,270
some some pretty interesting articles

968
00:42:39,740 --> 00:42:37,980
I've seen recently that have have

969
00:42:41,690 --> 00:42:39,750
attempted to tie a JFK's assassination

970
00:42:44,059 --> 00:42:41,700
into some sort of youth illogical

971
00:42:45,529 --> 00:42:44,069
context and Fred Lee Chrisman might be a

972
00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:45,539
lynchpin for that well yeah

973
00:42:49,579 --> 00:42:47,640
Kristin Chrisman is actually but he

974
00:42:51,410 --> 00:42:49,589
doesn't he doesn't seem to factor into

975
00:42:54,019 --> 00:42:51,420
all these recent news articles like the

976
00:42:56,089 --> 00:42:54,029
one that JFK ordered all the UFO FILES

977
00:42:57,500 --> 00:42:56,099
ten days before his assassination he

978
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:57,510
wanted to see beautiful sauce before he

979
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,480
went to into some kind of meetings with

980
00:43:03,230 --> 00:43:02,160
the Russians that has nothing to do with

981
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:03,240
Chrisman and then there was another

982
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:07,410
recent FBI memo by a guy named hotel guy

983
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:10,170
hotel who was the FBI agent in charge of

984
00:43:15,049 --> 00:43:12,450
in the Pacific Northwest in the state of

985
00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:15,059
Washington who wrote a memo talking

986
00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:16,710
about flying saucers that sounds very

987
00:43:19,939 --> 00:43:18,329
much like the

988
00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:19,949
well incident so that would those were

989
00:43:24,469 --> 00:43:22,049
to mainstream stories I'd hit like the

990
00:43:26,089 --> 00:43:24,479
Yahoo and the AP and all that neither of

991
00:43:27,890 --> 00:43:26,099
those have to do with Chrisman in fact

992
00:43:31,459 --> 00:43:27,900
very few people know Chrisman's mean

993
00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:31,469
even though Chrisman is the guy that Jim

994
00:43:35,859 --> 00:43:33,209
Garrison thought was the grassy knoll

995
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:35,869
shooter Jim Garrison as you recall

996
00:43:41,509 --> 00:43:38,910
prosecuted a guy named Clay Shaw 1968

997
00:43:43,789 --> 00:43:41,519
Ford assassination of JFK was made

998
00:43:46,759 --> 00:43:43,799
famous for four people that came by much

999
00:43:49,130 --> 00:43:46,769
later in 1992 when Oliver Stone did his

1000
00:43:51,799 --> 00:43:49,140
movie JFK which was based gun Garrison's

1001
00:43:53,359 --> 00:43:51,809
case but even in that movie he makes the

1002
00:43:55,309 --> 00:43:53,369
point because in the movie they don't

1003
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:55,319
mention charisma at all either but he

1004
00:43:59,059 --> 00:43:56,640
makes the point that the guy that they

1005
00:44:02,089 --> 00:43:59,069
are prosecuting Clay Shaw is just a

1006
00:44:03,709 --> 00:44:02,099
toehold in the larger conspiracy and in

1007
00:44:05,959 --> 00:44:03,719
fact it was another guy Edgar Eugene

1008
00:44:08,029 --> 00:44:05,969
Bradley who a garrison thought he had a

1009
00:44:09,650 --> 00:44:08,039
much better case against but Ronald

1010
00:44:11,419 --> 00:44:09,660
Reagan refused to extradite out of

1011
00:44:13,370 --> 00:44:11,429
California so he wasn't able to

1012
00:44:15,620 --> 00:44:13,380
prosecute him Clay Shaw was just the guy

1013
00:44:18,079 --> 00:44:15,630
the garrison had enough on to go forward

1014
00:44:20,569 --> 00:44:18,089
in court the shooter the guy he thought

1015
00:44:22,459 --> 00:44:20,579
was the shooter was Fred Lee Chrisman

1016
00:44:26,089 --> 00:44:22,469
and your right hip friendly Chrisman was

1017
00:44:30,349 --> 00:44:26,099
known before 1968 back in 1947 he was a

1018
00:44:32,749 --> 00:44:30,359
famous witness to the first UFO event of

1019
00:44:34,609 --> 00:44:32,759
the modern era of the post-war era the

1020
00:44:37,849 --> 00:44:34,619
one that you know usually people say

1021
00:44:39,499 --> 00:44:37,859
Kenneth Arnold saw the Chevron shades

1022
00:44:42,109 --> 00:44:39,509
over Mountaineer and that was the first

1023
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:42,119
one three days before that there was the

1024
00:44:46,189 --> 00:44:44,130
Moore Island incident now before you go

1025
00:44:48,349 --> 00:44:46,199
into details here I want to dovetail

1026
00:44:50,299 --> 00:44:48,359
this with a recent book that came out

1027
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:50,309
they're going to be talking about on our

1028
00:44:54,739 --> 00:44:52,410
next episode called flying saucers over

1029
00:44:56,839 --> 00:44:54,749
the White House by : Bennett and he

1030
00:44:58,489 --> 00:44:56,849
mentions it's mostly about Edward

1031
00:45:01,069 --> 00:44:58,499
rappelled of course who was the head of

1032
00:45:03,529 --> 00:45:01,079
air force project Bluebook back in the

1033
00:45:05,539 --> 00:45:03,539
50s annie wrote a book called the report

1034
00:45:08,569 --> 00:45:05,549
on unidentified flying objects a

1035
00:45:10,939 --> 00:45:08,579
best-seller and in that book he talks

1036
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:10,949
about a dirty hoax perpetrated by

1037
00:45:15,919 --> 00:45:13,650
someone he calls the chicago publisher

1038
00:45:18,410 --> 00:45:15,929
and we all know the chicago publisher

1039
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:18,420
was none other than ray palmer who of

1040
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:19,920
course was editor of amazing stories

1041
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:22,650
when Richard shaver came aboard he was

1042
00:45:28,789 --> 00:45:25,170
one of the founders of fake magazine all

1043
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:28,799
that stuff okay so Palmer called Kenneth

1044
00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:31,410
Arnold and said hey this

1045
00:45:35,359 --> 00:45:33,510
occurred in up in the neck of the woods

1046
00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:35,369
in which you live in you know there's a

1047
00:45:39,859 --> 00:45:37,230
state of Washington why don't you go out

1048
00:45:42,650 --> 00:45:39,869
and investigate it I'll pay your

1049
00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:42,660
expenses or maybe pay you for an article

1050
00:45:47,539 --> 00:45:44,460
or something like that and Arnold did

1051
00:45:50,569 --> 00:45:47,549
that forms you know one of the strange

1052
00:45:53,690 --> 00:45:50,579
events that surround the Maury Island

1053
00:45:54,529 --> 00:45:53,700
incident but why did repelled called a

1054
00:45:57,529 --> 00:45:54,539
dirty hoax

1055
00:46:00,410 --> 00:45:57,539
why okay well first off let me explain

1056
00:46:02,990 --> 00:46:00,420
that this new edition of the book has

1057
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:03,000
several sidebar articles that gets the

1058
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:04,770
focus is a little more clearly on things

1059
00:46:08,779 --> 00:46:06,690
like that I have a whole article on what

1060
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:08,789
root Health said about Maury island he

1061
00:46:12,049 --> 00:46:10,260
goes through the whole incident in fact

1062
00:46:13,849 --> 00:46:12,059
he but he gives everybody different

1063
00:46:16,490 --> 00:46:13,859
names he called like Palmer's the

1064
00:46:18,799 --> 00:46:16,500
Chicago publisher I know he called I

1065
00:46:21,380 --> 00:46:18,809
think he called Chrisman like Simpson

1066
00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:21,390
and and Dahl was given another he

1067
00:46:27,650 --> 00:46:24,630
actually gives them other names why the

1068
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:27,660
reason that he's calling it a hoax and

1069
00:46:31,390 --> 00:46:29,609
that's many many people call it a hoax

1070
00:46:34,549 --> 00:46:31,400
over time it's because the other

1071
00:46:37,730 --> 00:46:34,559
participant the other witness to the MOA

1072
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:37,740
an incident a Harold Dahl said it was a

1073
00:46:43,460 --> 00:46:41,970
hoax and and so I mean if you got the

1074
00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:43,470
major guy telling you it's a hoax then

1075
00:46:48,140 --> 00:46:45,710
you know you're gonna have confusion

1076
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:48,150
down through the years and the Maury

1077
00:46:52,789 --> 00:46:49,920
island case has indeed been dismissed by

1078
00:46:56,059 --> 00:46:52,799
as a hoax by many more people than just

1079
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:56,069
repelled but the reason for that and I

1080
00:47:00,260 --> 00:46:57,930
get you know a little bit more detail

1081
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:00,270
about this is that after the incident

1082
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:04,890
and I guess I should go maybe a later go

1083
00:47:11,450 --> 00:47:06,240
into detail what the incident actually

1084
00:47:15,529 --> 00:47:11,460
was telling hanboks scuse me ken ken

1085
00:47:18,140 --> 00:47:15,539
before we go into the aftermath really a

1086
00:47:19,700 --> 00:47:18,150
real brief Reader's Digest summary for

1087
00:47:22,670 --> 00:47:19,710
listeners who say Rory Owen what was

1088
00:47:24,799 --> 00:47:22,680
that okay let's have that Reader's

1089
00:47:26,569 --> 00:47:24,809
Digest summary for what this incident is

1090
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:26,579
all about it'll help frame what you're

1091
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:27,930
about to say go ahead okay all right

1092
00:47:31,130 --> 00:47:28,319
sure

1093
00:47:33,799 --> 00:47:31,140
all right okay it's six flying saucers

1094
00:47:37,460 --> 00:47:33,809
one of them is wobbling this is over in

1095
00:47:39,529 --> 00:47:37,470
Puget Sound in in near Tacoma Washington

1096
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:39,539
in the Pacific Northwest these guys are

1097
00:47:44,170 --> 00:47:42,480
on a harbor patrol boat they are not

1098
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:44,180
harbor patrolmen they don't work

1099
00:47:49,630 --> 00:47:47,119
the Civil Patrol they're recovering logs

1100
00:47:50,829 --> 00:47:49,640
in a log operation and I could go into

1101
00:47:52,690 --> 00:47:50,839
detail on that but that's probably too

1102
00:47:55,359 --> 00:47:52,700
much detail certainly see these flying

1103
00:47:58,299 --> 00:47:55,369
saucers over there ship one of them is

1104
00:48:00,400 --> 00:47:58,309
wobbling and starts getting out material

1105
00:48:01,780 --> 00:48:00,410
a black material in a white material and

1106
00:48:03,970 --> 00:48:01,790
then it's touched by one of the other

1107
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:03,980
saucers it straightens up and they all

1108
00:48:09,370 --> 00:48:06,650
fly away and the stuff that came down a

1109
00:48:11,140 --> 00:48:09,380
lot of it was was was was very hot I'm

1110
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:11,150
gonna hit the water steam would go up

1111
00:48:17,140 --> 00:48:14,510
some of it hit the guy's pet dog and the

1112
00:48:19,359 --> 00:48:17,150
dog was killed and his son was hit

1113
00:48:20,829 --> 00:48:19,369
Charles ball was hit in the arm and he

1114
00:48:23,260 --> 00:48:20,839
was so wounded that they took him to a

1115
00:48:24,940 --> 00:48:23,270
hospital and and that was in that was

1116
00:48:27,970 --> 00:48:24,950
the first part of the incident and Dahl

1117
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:27,980
went and took this story to Chrisman

1118
00:48:33,370 --> 00:48:30,650
because he felt that Chrisman was his

1119
00:48:35,410 --> 00:48:33,380
boss even though records indicate that

1120
00:48:37,140 --> 00:48:35,420
the boat the North Queen is actually

1121
00:48:40,450 --> 00:48:37,150
registered to Dahl Paul owns the boat

1122
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:40,460
Chrisman comes down the next day and has

1123
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:43,490
a signing of his own by himself and it's

1124
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:45,290
just a flying saucer passing overhead

1125
00:48:50,710 --> 00:48:48,050
and so that's that's the maintenance

1126
00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:50,720
incident and the reason of course Dahl

1127
00:48:56,140 --> 00:48:53,049
went to Chrisman was because you know he

1128
00:48:57,819 --> 00:48:56,150
damage to the boat and and and he felt

1129
00:49:00,160 --> 00:48:57,829
that you know he had to sell Christmas

1130
00:49:01,930 --> 00:49:00,170
something Chrisman you know because he

1131
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:01,940
thought Christmas was his boss he would

1132
00:49:04,839 --> 00:49:03,440
think that while he was drinking and he

1133
00:49:05,319 --> 00:49:04,849
destroyed the boat but that's not what

1134
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:05,329
happened

1135
00:49:08,859 --> 00:49:07,130
he told Christmas story he told

1136
00:49:10,930 --> 00:49:08,869
everybody he knew the story he told you

1137
00:49:12,370 --> 00:49:10,940
no he was dumbfounded by it all he had

1138
00:49:15,010 --> 00:49:12,380
to take his kid to the hospital his dog

1139
00:49:17,049 --> 00:49:15,020
died it was very real and he was telling

1140
00:49:18,849 --> 00:49:17,059
everybody and and what happened what

1141
00:49:20,740 --> 00:49:18,859
always happens when you got a witness

1142
00:49:23,470 --> 00:49:20,750
like that particularly this early in the

1143
00:49:26,109 --> 00:49:23,480
history of UFO who showed up man in

1144
00:49:28,450 --> 00:49:26,119
black a man in black came to him and

1145
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:28,460
said what somebody shut up you know you

1146
00:49:33,250 --> 00:49:30,319
didn't see anything and if you start

1147
00:49:35,470 --> 00:49:33,260
telling people more more people about

1148
00:49:39,809 --> 00:49:35,480
this bad things are going to happen to

1149
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:39,819
you that didn't stopped all he said

1150
00:49:43,809 --> 00:49:41,930
Harold thought was not originally

1151
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:43,819
frightened by the man in black he just

1152
00:49:46,450 --> 00:49:45,290
went ahead and he's telling people what

1153
00:49:47,980 --> 00:49:46,460
happened to him he knew what happened to

1154
00:49:50,109 --> 00:49:47,990
like everybody who sees the UFO you know

1155
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:50,119
you can you can explain away as much of

1156
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:51,650
it as you want but if you saw it you

1157
00:49:57,339 --> 00:49:53,770
were there and he started telling people

1158
00:49:58,689 --> 00:49:57,349
then his shield from the wound at that

1159
00:50:01,479 --> 00:49:58,699
point did

1160
00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:01,489
his wife fell ill and his business began

1161
00:50:06,759 --> 00:50:03,920
to fall apart all the bad things that

1162
00:50:09,309 --> 00:50:06,769
the men in black told him we're coming

1163
00:50:12,729 --> 00:50:09,319
true and his life was being ruined so at

1164
00:50:14,410 --> 00:50:12,739
that point he says I made it all up it's

1165
00:50:16,449 --> 00:50:14,420
a hoax don't believe me it was just a

1166
00:50:17,679 --> 00:50:16,459
big old joke just to get out of the

1167
00:50:20,170 --> 00:50:17,689
trouble of the hood that the men in

1168
00:50:23,739 --> 00:50:20,180
black were we're bringing upon him I

1169
00:50:27,130 --> 00:50:23,749
should also mention to ya little

1170
00:50:29,859 --> 00:50:27,140
evidence what then you mentioned his

1171
00:50:33,130 --> 00:50:29,869
father there's what's called the flag

1172
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:33,140
the stuff that the UFO ejected but more

1173
00:50:37,179 --> 00:50:35,119
to the point on on the men in black I

1174
00:50:39,699 --> 00:50:37,189
should mention that that David Childers

1175
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:39,709
has just reprinted Jim Keith great book

1176
00:50:42,939 --> 00:50:41,359
on the history of the men black called

1177
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:42,949
the case book on the men in black and

1178
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:45,410
I've written a new forward to that book

1179
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:48,079
so just let people know if you don't

1180
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:49,249
know what I'm talking balancing about

1181
00:50:52,839 --> 00:50:51,410
men in black get that book and you'll

1182
00:50:57,009 --> 00:50:52,849
you'll have the background well yeah

1183
00:50:58,749 --> 00:50:57,019
Dahl part of the reason why Dahl was so

1184
00:51:01,479 --> 00:50:58,759
brave in the first place about talking

1185
00:51:05,769 --> 00:51:01,489
about this he had proof and Chrisman had

1186
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:05,779
the proof and and in fact when Arnold's

1187
00:51:09,309 --> 00:51:07,609
finally gave up Arnold's investigating

1188
00:51:11,709 --> 00:51:09,319
this he's even got his friend amyl Smith

1189
00:51:15,789 --> 00:51:11,719
who was another famous witness to a UFO

1190
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:15,799
event they're all they're interviewing

1191
00:51:19,689 --> 00:51:17,569
Chrisman and Dahl at the Glen Cove hotel

1192
00:51:22,269 --> 00:51:19,699
there and a lot of strange things are

1193
00:51:24,549 --> 00:51:22,279
happening to them too it seems like the

1194
00:51:26,079 --> 00:51:24,559
room is being bugged and all this other

1195
00:51:28,419 --> 00:51:26,089
stuff and they just after a while

1196
00:51:29,739 --> 00:51:28,429
they're scratching their head Chrisman

1197
00:51:32,109 --> 00:51:29,749
and all actually show them some of the

1198
00:51:35,589 --> 00:51:32,119
stuff they don't know what it is so they

1199
00:51:38,259 --> 00:51:35,599
call in counterintelligence people from

1200
00:51:41,319 --> 00:51:38,269
the Army will get into that Imam will

1201
00:51:44,049 --> 00:51:41,329
continue with Kenneth Thomas recounting

1202
00:51:46,749 --> 00:51:44,059
gorée Island incident and why should be

1203
00:51:48,910 --> 00:51:46,759
taken seriously I'm Jean Steinberg the

1204
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:48,920
co-host is Chris O'Brien you're in the

1205
00:51:57,549 --> 00:51:55,019
[Music]

1206
00:51:59,409 --> 00:51:57,559
hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to

1207
00:52:00,339 --> 00:51:59,419
listen to GCN programs on the goal I

1208
00:52:02,229 --> 00:52:00,349
have great news

1209
00:52:04,209 --> 00:52:02,239
GCM has created a droid and iPhone

1210
00:52:06,279 --> 00:52:04,219
application and it's free just as easy

1211
00:52:07,989 --> 00:52:06,289
as going to GC and live.com click on the

1212
00:52:09,279 --> 00:52:07,999
banner and download before you know it

1213
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:09,289
you'll be listening to your favorite

1214
00:52:13,569 --> 00:52:11,119
hard-hitting juicy on shows live around

1215
00:52:15,429 --> 00:52:13,579
Amman right on your Droid or iPhone 24/7

1216
00:52:17,079 --> 00:52:15,439
and on the go so download the Droid an

1217
00:52:19,149 --> 00:52:17,089
iPhone app free by clicking on the

1218
00:52:20,919 --> 00:52:19,159
banner at GCU live.com thanks again for

1219
00:52:23,289 --> 00:52:20,929
listening to GC and live.com again

1220
00:52:24,459 --> 00:52:23,299
that's juicy and live.com hi this is Ted

1221
00:52:26,319 --> 00:52:24,469
Anderson have you ever wondered why

1222
00:52:28,059 --> 00:52:26,329
banks stockbrokers investment advisors

1223
00:52:30,189 --> 00:52:28,069
won't talk about gold IRAs they've been

1224
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:30,199
available since 1986 yet the financial

1225
00:52:33,249 --> 00:52:31,729
industry won't recognize the value of

1226
00:52:35,019 --> 00:52:33,259
gold for your retirement gold has

1227
00:52:36,729 --> 00:52:35,029
outperformed paper investments yet no

1228
00:53:06,030 --> 00:52:36,739
word about IRAs if you would like to

1229
00:53:10,329 --> 00:53:07,499
[Music]

1230
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:10,339
let me remind you all over again if you

1231
00:53:14,739 --> 00:53:12,049
have a comment or a question about the

1232
00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:14,749
power cast we want to hear from you send

1233
00:53:17,979 --> 00:53:16,880
it to new is that the power cast calm

1234
00:53:21,759 --> 00:53:17,989
once again that's in the use of the

1235
00:53:24,669 --> 00:53:21,769
power cast calm I promise we will read

1236
00:53:26,799 --> 00:53:24,679
each and every message and answer most

1237
00:53:29,739 --> 00:53:26,809
of them really sometimes even a hundred

1238
00:53:31,329 --> 00:53:29,749
percent depending on our mood I'm being

1239
00:53:31,839 --> 00:53:31,339
less than serious we also have the

1240
00:53:35,019 --> 00:53:31,849
forum's

1241
00:53:37,739 --> 00:53:35,029
forum dot the para cast come that's

1242
00:53:41,229 --> 00:53:37,749
formed up the para cast calm the

1243
00:53:43,630 --> 00:53:41,239
world-famous para cast community forums

1244
00:53:46,959 --> 00:53:43,640
where the action is we welcome your

1245
00:53:49,899 --> 00:53:46,969
participation forum dot the para cast

1246
00:53:53,229 --> 00:53:49,909
calm the Mari Island incident by the way

1247
00:53:54,909 --> 00:53:53,239
was also featured in a book by a Kenneth

1248
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:54,919
Arnold and Ray Palmer called the coming

1249
00:53:58,539 --> 00:53:56,569
of the saucers it was part two part one

1250
00:54:00,789 --> 00:53:58,549
of the book was basically just Palmer

1251
00:54:02,859 --> 00:54:00,799
recounting UFO sightings and such we

1252
00:54:04,959 --> 00:54:02,869
have Kenneth Thomas covering power

1253
00:54:06,849 --> 00:54:04,969
politics the co-host is Chris O'Brien

1254
00:54:10,899 --> 00:54:06,859
I'm gene Steinberger in the power cast

1255
00:54:12,969 --> 00:54:10,909
so ok Army Intelligence is consulted in

1256
00:54:16,659 --> 00:54:12,979
connection with this incident by Captain

1257
00:54:19,390 --> 00:54:16,669
Smith and by Kenneth Arnold right that's

1258
00:54:20,739 --> 00:54:19,400
right that's right and they call people

1259
00:54:22,449 --> 00:54:20,749
I call an Army Intelligence because

1260
00:54:25,299 --> 00:54:22,459
they're the Air Force was not a distinct

1261
00:54:26,859 --> 00:54:25,309
branch of the military at that point but

1262
00:54:29,949 --> 00:54:26,869
these were Air Force guys lieutenants

1263
00:54:32,589 --> 00:54:29,959
Davidson and Brown they came out they

1264
00:54:34,929 --> 00:54:32,599
interviewed Krishnan and then they were

1265
00:54:36,519 --> 00:54:34,939
ready to get on a b25 and fly off

1266
00:54:39,669 --> 00:54:36,529
actually to the ceremonies that were

1267
00:54:41,049 --> 00:54:39,679
originally to announce the separation of

1268
00:54:43,749 --> 00:54:41,059
the Air Force as a separate branch of

1269
00:54:46,059 --> 00:54:43,759
the service Chrisman gave them a

1270
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:46,069
Kellogg's cornflakes box full of the

1271
00:54:50,649 --> 00:54:47,839
flag that had come off the flying

1272
00:54:53,019 --> 00:54:50,659
saucers and they loaded it up on the b25

1273
00:54:54,609 --> 00:54:53,029
and they got on it they took off and

1274
00:54:56,409 --> 00:54:54,619
they were going to take it to some place

1275
00:54:58,239 --> 00:54:56,419
to get it analyzed and try to reach some

1276
00:55:04,179 --> 00:54:58,249
conclusion when their plane crashed and

1277
00:55:08,109 --> 00:55:04,189
they were killed and yeah I mean it's in

1278
00:55:11,079 --> 00:55:08,119
and after that no real investigation you

1279
00:55:12,609 --> 00:55:11,089
know even though two army officers died

1280
00:55:13,809 --> 00:55:12,619
and a plane was destroyed there was

1281
00:55:17,220 --> 00:55:13,819
never really an official investigation

1282
00:55:20,970 --> 00:55:17,230
they sent out a counterintelligence

1283
00:55:22,980 --> 00:55:20,980
that could not recover confined this

1284
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:22,990
Kellogg's cornflakes box full of stuff

1285
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:24,730
in the wreckage that had disappeared

1286
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:27,130
they made the recommendation that that

1287
00:55:34,260 --> 00:55:29,410
stuff should all be funneled through the

1288
00:55:36,030 --> 00:55:34,270
foreign technologies desk in of the army

1289
00:55:38,070 --> 00:55:36,040
which is the exact same place that

1290
00:55:42,090 --> 00:55:38,080
actually philip corso said they possibly

1291
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:42,100
at the Roswell wreckage interesting

1292
00:55:46,050 --> 00:55:43,450
coincidence

1293
00:55:48,450 --> 00:55:46,060
you know what interesting can when you

1294
00:55:50,550 --> 00:55:48,460
said the words kellogg's corn flake what

1295
00:55:53,220 --> 00:55:50,560
flashes in my mind was a line from a

1296
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:53,230
Paul Simon song wish I was a kellogg's

1297
00:55:58,980 --> 00:55:55,810
corn flake don't ask me why

1298
00:56:00,330 --> 00:55:58,990
go ahead please maybe yeah yeah well

1299
00:56:02,130 --> 00:56:00,340
that's probably placement I get the

1300
00:56:04,050 --> 00:56:02,140
money from Kellogg's to something that

1301
00:56:07,980 --> 00:56:04,060
up wish that was a killin anyway that's

1302
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:07,990
laughter that that's when Chrisman

1303
00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:10,450
basically goes off to Alaska and

1304
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:12,540
disappears for many years and then Dahl

1305
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:15,730
his last two kind of recovery his wife

1306
00:56:21,660 --> 00:56:17,530
I should mention let me just one thing

1307
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:21,670
about Ray Palmer Ray Palmer with you

1308
00:56:26,850 --> 00:56:23,490
right he is a pulp publisher but the

1309
00:56:29,730 --> 00:56:26,860
probably most famous for publishing the

1310
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:29,740
shaver mystery stories the shaver

1311
00:56:35,130 --> 00:56:33,250
mystery involves stories told by welder

1312
00:56:37,350 --> 00:56:35,140
in Pennsylvania a guy named Richard

1313
00:56:40,620 --> 00:56:37,360
shaver right we've had several shows on

1314
00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:40,630
this can so keep a very great good good

1315
00:56:44,970 --> 00:56:42,310
good good then I could do a shorthand

1316
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:44,980
shaver and the day Russ what's

1317
00:56:50,430 --> 00:56:47,050
interesting about this in relation to

1318
00:56:52,770 --> 00:56:50,440
Moy island is that fredchristman wrote a

1319
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:52,780
letter talking about his battles with

1320
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:54,810
gideros in Burma

1321
00:57:01,110 --> 00:56:58,720
months before Kenneth Arnold months

1322
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:01,120
before Richard Ray Palmer ever hired

1323
00:57:06,210 --> 00:57:03,250
Kenneth Arnold to investigate him

1324
00:57:07,830 --> 00:57:06,220
Ray Palmer knew who fredchristman was

1325
00:57:09,630 --> 00:57:07,840
before the investigation even began

1326
00:57:13,620 --> 00:57:09,640
before there was a more have an incident

1327
00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:13,630
he never told Arnold that and it's just

1328
00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:15,250
a complete mystery and it's only one

1329
00:57:19,770 --> 00:57:18,160
it's one of two that telegraphed

1330
00:57:21,630 --> 00:57:19,780
Christmas presents before any of the

1331
00:57:26,940 --> 00:57:21,640
main narrative happens the other one is

1332
00:57:29,970 --> 00:57:26,950
Jim Garrison Jim Garrison was an FBI

1333
00:57:30,270 --> 00:57:29,980
agent in the Pacific Northwest

1334
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:30,280
at

1335
00:57:38,130 --> 00:57:34,240
the same time and he knew another FBI

1336
00:57:40,350 --> 00:57:38,140
agent who at the time was recovered a 30

1337
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:40,360
inch flying saucer kind of famously that

1338
00:57:45,590 --> 00:57:43,450
guy's name was a guy Bannister and

1339
00:57:47,310 --> 00:57:45,600
Garrison and he says in his

1340
00:57:49,350 --> 00:57:47,320
autobiography I used to have lunch with

1341
00:57:50,850 --> 00:57:49,360
Bannister all the time and this is the

1342
00:57:52,980 --> 00:57:50,860
famous incidence surely they were

1343
00:57:53,550 --> 00:57:52,990
talking about this 30-inch Flying Saucer

1344
00:57:54,990 --> 00:57:53,560
disc

1345
00:57:57,330 --> 00:57:55,000
they must have also been talking about

1346
00:57:59,880 --> 00:57:57,340
more Islands Jim Garrison must have

1347
00:58:01,980 --> 00:57:59,890
known who fredchristman was before he

1348
00:58:04,770 --> 00:58:01,990
ever started investigating him as part

1349
00:58:07,380 --> 00:58:04,780
of the Kennedy assassination no don't

1350
00:58:08,940 --> 00:58:07,390
answer to to these issues it's just this

1351
00:58:10,770 --> 00:58:08,950
idea that Christman's present is

1352
00:58:14,540 --> 00:58:10,780
telegraphed away in advance of whatever

1353
00:58:16,890 --> 00:58:14,550
happened all right now at Christmas

1354
00:58:21,870 --> 00:58:16,900
you've talking over me Crispin went to

1355
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:21,880
Alaska is that true or what that is that

1356
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:24,730
true you went out Alaska yeah that's

1357
00:58:29,970 --> 00:58:28,210
where the trend appears on him okay as

1358
00:58:32,070 --> 00:58:29,980
we talked about friendly Christmas I

1359
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:32,080
should tell you that years ago a friend

1360
00:58:36,450 --> 00:58:34,570
of my UFO investigator I don't know what

1361
00:58:39,050 --> 00:58:36,460
happened to him so if anyone knows him a

1362
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:39,060
guy who lived in Chester Pennsylvania

1363
00:58:45,930 --> 00:58:42,880
name of Floyd Murray got involved in

1364
00:58:47,850 --> 00:58:45,940
investigating Chrisman and then you know

1365
00:58:49,230 --> 00:58:47,860
he kind of fell off the radar tooth

1366
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:49,240
don't know what happened with Floyd

1367
00:58:52,980 --> 00:58:51,850
Murray but if you're listening Floyd let

1368
00:58:55,230 --> 00:58:52,990
us know what happened with your

1369
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:55,240
investigation Ken please that's very

1370
00:58:59,190 --> 00:58:57,370
interesting cuz I had a guy Ron halberd

1371
00:59:00,990 --> 00:58:59,200
there was his name and he was a Moylan

1372
00:59:02,430 --> 00:59:01,000
expert and I have an appendix in the

1373
00:59:05,490 --> 00:59:02,440
book that's just an interview with him

1374
00:59:07,230 --> 00:59:05,500
and I've since the original edition at

1375
00:59:13,980 --> 00:59:07,240
the book I've not heard from ron Hubbard

1376
00:59:16,830 --> 00:59:13,990
her since he's disappeared sinister gaga

1377
00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:16,840
mister played by Ed Asner in the Oliver

1378
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:19,390
Stone movie he was running the fair play

1379
00:59:24,180 --> 00:59:22,450
for Cuba office in New Orleans and the

1380
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:24,190
guy the most famous guy was working for

1381
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:26,530
him was Lee Harvey Oswald this is a guy

1382
00:59:29,550 --> 00:59:28,000
who was recovering a 30-inch Flying

1383
00:59:30,780 --> 00:59:29,560
Saucer in the Pacific Northwest at the

1384
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:30,790
time of the Moylan case

1385
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:35,730
oh boy that really spins in circles yes

1386
00:59:43,500 --> 00:59:40,930
now into this this recent story about

1387
00:59:46,020 --> 00:59:43,510
this memo

1388
00:59:50,610 --> 00:59:46,030
from another guy a guy named guy hostile

1389
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:50,620
who was the FBI guy in Idaho and in it

1390
00:59:58,290 --> 00:59:52,930
researchers now are saying there's a

1391
01:00:01,200 --> 00:59:58,300
famous note by J Edgar Hoover from 1947

1392
01:00:03,660 --> 01:00:01,210
where he says that he really expresses

1393
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:03,670
his frustration that the army wouldn't

1394
01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:06,970
turn turn this thing over to him from

1395
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:09,790
the LA case and he's talking about a UFO

1396
01:00:13,890 --> 01:00:12,400
and nowadays Roswell researchers look at

1397
01:00:15,930 --> 01:00:13,900
that LA because it's in handwriting we

1398
01:00:17,610 --> 01:00:15,940
look at la people think it's a Louisiana

1399
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:17,620
although you know the abbreviations

1400
01:00:20,910 --> 01:00:18,970
weren't really the same then and then

1401
01:00:23,070 --> 01:00:20,920
we're saying some people say think now

1402
01:00:24,420 --> 01:00:23,080
that it looks like SW that means

1403
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:24,430
Southwest and that's how it's connected

1404
01:00:30,210 --> 01:00:27,040
the Roswell case well that note was

1405
01:00:31,980 --> 01:00:30,220
written just a couple of days after guy

1406
01:00:33,870 --> 01:00:31,990
Bannister recovered the 30 inch flying

1407
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:33,880
saucer and the language in it Hoover

1408
01:00:38,070 --> 01:00:35,890
says that the army wouldn't turn it over

1409
01:00:40,530 --> 01:00:38,080
to him he's talking about Roswell

1410
01:00:42,450 --> 01:00:40,540
I mean Roswell was a debris field you

1411
01:00:44,100 --> 01:00:42,460
don't just turn over a debris field or

1412
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:44,110
even it was a big spaceship you just

1413
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:46,480
don't turn over a big spaceship but you

1414
01:00:50,010 --> 01:00:48,880
can't turn over a little 30 inch disk so

1415
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:50,020
I think there's every indication that

1416
01:00:54,180 --> 01:00:51,730
what he's talking about in that memo is

1417
01:00:56,190 --> 01:00:54,190
is the guy Bannister incident you know

1418
01:00:57,780 --> 01:00:56,200
and you can't really understand that

1419
01:00:59,160 --> 01:00:57,790
unless you understand more island but

1420
01:01:01,200 --> 01:00:59,170
you know you've got these Roswell reef

1421
01:01:03,510 --> 01:01:01,210
fishes or Sicily Roswell who kind of

1422
01:01:06,930 --> 01:01:03,520
dismiss Long Island as a hoax because

1423
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:06,940
they don't really know the history okay

1424
01:01:13,110 --> 01:01:10,000
so when people looking at more yawen and

1425
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:13,120
trying to understand it why are these

1426
01:01:17,940 --> 01:01:16,090
facts you know not readily available

1427
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:17,950
except in your books and some other

1428
01:01:25,830 --> 01:01:23,130
studies well yeah that's a good point my

1429
01:01:27,990 --> 01:01:25,840
my book is the only full book ever

1430
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:28,000
written on it you know you'll find a

1431
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:30,310
chapter in group Health's book with the

1432
01:01:35,580 --> 01:01:32,770
names all changed and there are

1433
01:01:38,820 --> 01:01:35,590
references to but um another one of

1434
01:01:41,580 --> 01:01:38,830
these side bars that I have any article

1435
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:41,590
is about Gerald heard the famous British

1436
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:44,770
philosopher who wrote a book called the

1437
01:01:48,390 --> 01:01:46,330
riddle of the flying saucers that was

1438
01:01:50,550 --> 01:01:48,400
published in the UK that had an entire

1439
01:01:52,290 --> 01:01:50,560
chapter on Laurie Island then when it

1440
01:01:54,510 --> 01:01:52,300
was published in America under the title

1441
01:01:57,630 --> 01:01:54,520
is another world watching the chapter

1442
01:02:00,300 --> 01:01:57,640
was gone had he become convinced that it

1443
01:02:01,410 --> 01:02:00,310
was a hoax or did they take it out you

1444
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:01,420
know was it under some kind of pressure

1445
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:06,130
I have a whole essay dealing dealing

1446
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:08,770
with that and again we've got this whole

1447
01:02:15,110 --> 01:02:10,930
confusion because Dahl said it was a

1448
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:18,990
the JFK research community of course

1449
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:21,010
doesn't want to get close to the UFO

1450
01:02:25,230 --> 01:02:23,770
material even though you know I'm not

1451
01:02:26,910 --> 01:02:25,240
talking about Kennedy who was shot

1452
01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:26,920
because he was about ready to expose the

1453
01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:29,710
Roswell secret you know that's not what

1454
01:02:36,060 --> 01:02:34,000
this is about it's about serious stuff

1455
01:02:39,180 --> 01:02:36,070
in about the counterintelligence world

1456
01:02:40,890 --> 01:02:39,190
and assassinations and they should be

1457
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:40,900
more interested but you know let's grab

1458
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:42,730
the stench of UFOs we have Kenneth

1459
01:02:47,340 --> 01:02:45,250
Thomas joining us this week I'm gene

1460
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:47,350
Steinberg the co-host is Chris O'Brien

1461
01:02:56,660 --> 01:02:54,190
[Music]

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hear from you if you have a comment or

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news at the para cast com

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01:07:19,170 --> 01:07:16,930
that's news at the podcast comm and if

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you want to catch up on past episodes we

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01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:27,670
that's the para cast comm or check us

1570
01:07:37,859 --> 01:07:34,190
we're back with Kenneth Thomas

1571
01:07:39,690 --> 01:07:37,869
discussing para politics not conspiracy

1572
01:07:40,530 --> 01:07:39,700
theories ladies and gentlemen para

1573
01:07:42,740 --> 01:07:40,540
politics

1574
01:07:46,890 --> 01:07:42,750
I'm the para cast with Gene and Chris

1575
01:07:49,109 --> 01:07:46,900
focusing on Maury ion this UFO case

1576
01:07:53,730 --> 01:07:49,119
three days before Kenneth Arnold's

1577
01:07:55,950 --> 01:07:53,740
sighting and June 24 1947 Mount Rainier

1578
01:07:58,200 --> 01:07:55,960
Washington three days earlier it happens

1579
01:08:00,540 --> 01:07:58,210
in Maury island all sorts of convoluted

1580
01:08:04,620 --> 01:08:00,550
things happening and then we have the

1581
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:04,630
connection the weird connection with the

1582
01:08:08,970 --> 01:08:06,640
Kennedy assassination so we cannot

1583
01:08:10,620 --> 01:08:08,980
understand why assassination researchers

1584
01:08:14,270 --> 01:08:10,630
aren't going to want to touch this with

1585
01:08:16,979 --> 01:08:14,280
a ten-foot pole or even a 50-foot pole

1586
01:08:21,959 --> 01:08:16,989
are you going at all Australian or

1587
01:08:23,670 --> 01:08:21,969
Michael Jordan even well here let me let

1588
01:08:26,490 --> 01:08:23,680
me just spice up the mix here a little

1589
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:26,500
bit too my dad was in the Coast Guard

1590
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:29,290
and in 1947-48

1591
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:32,250
and was stationed in Puget Sound and

1592
01:08:36,809 --> 01:08:34,690
does recall when they got their first

1593
01:08:39,150 --> 01:08:36,819
radar unit seeing objects that they

1594
01:08:40,709 --> 01:08:39,160
couldn't identify zipping in and out of

1595
01:08:43,229 --> 01:08:40,719
the straits of Juan de Fuca and he told

1596
01:08:44,910 --> 01:08:43,239
this story a couple of times the family

1597
01:08:46,829 --> 01:08:44,920
well you know when I was growing up I

1598
01:08:48,390 --> 01:08:46,839
did ask him in later years if he knew

1599
01:08:51,209 --> 01:08:48,400
anything about the Mauri Island incident

1600
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:51,219
he recalled it being just a slight blip

1601
01:08:55,499 --> 01:08:53,410
news story but officially he was he was

1602
01:08:57,539 --> 01:08:55,509
never brought into it or had no official

1603
01:09:00,209 --> 01:08:57,549
knowledge of it as a as a member of the

1604
01:09:02,249 --> 01:09:00,219
Coast Guard so just to kind of stir the

1605
01:09:04,559 --> 01:09:02,259
pot up a little I have a connection to

1606
01:09:07,380 --> 01:09:04,569
the case kind of peripherally I haven't

1607
01:09:08,910 --> 01:09:07,390
gone up you know here's putting together

1608
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:08,920
there's new addition you know because

1609
01:09:11,099 --> 01:09:09,850
we're trying to add

1610
01:09:13,260 --> 01:09:11,109
occurred to make this new addition is

1611
01:09:15,330 --> 01:09:13,270
different as it could be with it's much

1612
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:15,340
more yeah no that's that's another

1613
01:09:19,980 --> 01:09:18,850
little interesting sidebar yeah it is of

1614
01:09:22,020 --> 01:09:19,990
course the connection to the Kennedy

1615
01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:22,030
assassination that makes it you know all

1616
01:09:26,580 --> 01:09:23,440
the more complex I mean you would think

1617
01:09:29,310 --> 01:09:26,590
these details would be as burned into

1618
01:09:30,780 --> 01:09:29,320
people's brains as much as you know the

1619
01:09:33,180 --> 01:09:30,790
Lee Harvey Oswald you think Chrisman's

1620
01:09:34,620 --> 01:09:33,190
name would be is known as Oswald but

1621
01:09:37,890 --> 01:09:34,630
they you know really successfully

1622
01:09:41,430 --> 01:09:37,900
introduced these elements of ufology and

1623
01:09:43,260 --> 01:09:41,440
stuff to to make it obscure and to chase

1624
01:09:45,470 --> 01:09:43,270
researchers away one interesting thing

1625
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:45,480
about Kurtzman is that he he swore that

1626
01:09:50,010 --> 01:09:48,250
there was a television show based on his

1627
01:09:52,530 --> 01:09:50,020
life and you probably remember the show

1628
01:09:55,380 --> 01:09:52,540
they were here are the invaders yes in

1629
01:09:57,390 --> 01:09:55,390
it no well Chrisman said that was about

1630
01:09:58,710 --> 01:09:57,400
him and this is the idea this is one of

1631
01:10:01,350 --> 01:09:58,720
the idea if it comes out there so maybe

1632
01:10:03,630 --> 01:10:01,360
Chrisman took that that that's flag from

1633
01:10:06,210 --> 01:10:03,640
the UFO kept it to himself maybe even

1634
01:10:08,610 --> 01:10:06,220
sabotage Davidson and Braun's plane and

1635
01:10:10,890 --> 01:10:08,620
he used it as a means since he had the

1636
01:10:12,450 --> 01:10:10,900
proof of the alien invasion or the alien

1637
01:10:13,620 --> 01:10:12,460
connection and the government doesn't

1638
01:10:15,660 --> 01:10:13,630
want to get it out he used it to

1639
01:10:17,390 --> 01:10:15,670
blackmail himself and to the most choice

1640
01:10:19,980 --> 01:10:17,400
assignments which would have included

1641
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:19,990
the Kennedy assassination but the

1642
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:22,000
invaders is about this guy who knows the

1643
01:10:27,060 --> 01:10:24,010
secret of the alien invasion you know

1644
01:10:29,610 --> 01:10:27,070
and he's constantly trying to expose it

1645
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:29,620
and being forwarded you know it's not

1646
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:32,170
such a far-fetched idea the invaders

1647
01:10:36,350 --> 01:10:34,690
what was a Quinn Martin productions

1648
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:36,360
if you remember Quinn Martin production

1649
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:38,890
but the there are other most famous show

1650
01:10:45,480 --> 01:10:42,730
was the FBI the streets of San Francisco

1651
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:45,490
- but of course Quinn Martin also

1652
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:49,810
produced the fugitive that's right well

1653
01:10:53,550 --> 01:10:51,250
the point though the salient point about

1654
01:10:55,380 --> 01:10:53,560
the FBI is that one of the consultants

1655
01:10:57,750 --> 01:10:55,390
was later the guy admitted and confessed

1656
01:10:59,910 --> 01:10:57,760
to this due to the show was mark salt

1657
01:11:02,070 --> 01:10:59,920
who is now universally recognized as

1658
01:11:05,820 --> 01:11:02,080
deep throat in the Watergate story so

1659
01:11:09,450 --> 01:11:05,830
they do use intelligence and cons houses

1660
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:09,460
people to to work on TV shows like that

1661
01:11:14,580 --> 01:11:11,650
and in fact another one of my sidebar

1662
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:14,590
additions to this new thing discusses if

1663
01:11:19,710 --> 01:11:17,290
the role the changing image of the

1664
01:11:22,870 --> 01:11:19,720
counterintelligence world on television

1665
01:11:24,790 --> 01:11:22,880
it's it traces the show danger man

1666
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:24,800
which was a secret agent you know secret

1667
01:11:29,380 --> 01:11:27,290
agent man where you had a guy who was

1668
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:29,390
like James Bond and he was saving them

1669
01:11:34,570 --> 01:11:31,970
the West from the evil communists every

1670
01:11:36,940 --> 01:11:34,580
episode he beat the criminal till you

1671
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:36,950
get to like 1968 in the time of Chrisman

1672
01:11:41,260 --> 01:11:39,050
when the same type ashing McGoohan

1673
01:11:43,630 --> 01:11:41,270
it was in that show was in a another

1674
01:11:46,690 --> 01:11:43,640
show cult show now called the prisoner

1675
01:11:49,510 --> 01:11:46,700
in which he was a guy who tried to drop

1676
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:49,520
out of the intelligence world but he was

1677
01:11:52,690 --> 01:11:51,170
gassed and he was thrown on an island

1678
01:11:53,980 --> 01:11:52,700
and put in something called the village

1679
01:11:56,380 --> 01:11:53,990
and every episode

1680
01:11:58,630 --> 01:11:56,390
he failed yeah we're you know in danger

1681
01:12:01,330 --> 01:11:58,640
man he was the great hero success every

1682
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:01,340
time beating the enemy in the prisoner

1683
01:12:06,610 --> 01:12:04,130
he could never escape the island and in

1684
01:12:09,340 --> 01:12:06,620
the interim you had people like Victor

1685
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:09,350
Marchetti and Philip Agee famous CIA

1686
01:12:13,780 --> 01:12:11,090
guys who dropped out and wrote these

1687
01:12:15,340 --> 01:12:13,790
tell-all books and he had the

1688
01:12:17,770 --> 01:12:15,350
assassinations committee we discussed

1689
01:12:19,270 --> 01:12:17,780
before and other congressional

1690
01:12:22,180 --> 01:12:19,280
committees exposing some of the abuses

1691
01:12:23,820 --> 01:12:22,190
of the CIA and the whole image of what

1692
01:12:25,900 --> 01:12:23,830
counterintelligence work was all about

1693
01:12:29,350 --> 01:12:25,910
completely change from one benevolence

1694
01:12:31,980 --> 01:12:29,360
to like malevolence no I am NOT a number

1695
01:12:35,220 --> 01:12:31,990
I am a man you are number six

1696
01:12:38,110 --> 01:12:35,230
[Laughter]

1697
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:38,120
only lasted one about a dozen episodes

1698
01:12:43,870 --> 01:12:40,970
you know thirteen episode J and Patrick

1699
01:12:46,510 --> 01:12:43,880
McGoohan also by the way produced that

1700
01:12:50,140 --> 01:12:46,520
show and actually there are two episodes

1701
01:12:51,730 --> 01:12:50,150
of danger man that foreshadow the

1702
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:51,740
prisoner one of them actually this the

1703
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:53,570
first episode of danger man was filmed

1704
01:12:57,250 --> 01:12:55,610
at Port Mary on where the village what

1705
01:12:59,530 --> 01:12:57,260
it was where most of the prisoner was

1706
01:13:02,050 --> 01:12:59,540
filmed at and there's another episode in

1707
01:13:03,730 --> 01:13:02,060
which he does in the last episode they

1708
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:03,740
do this really see realistic thing where

1709
01:13:09,430 --> 01:13:07,040
they talk where the main guy essentially

1710
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:09,440
winds up discovering you know he's

1711
01:13:12,820 --> 01:13:11,330
number six who's number one he discovers

1712
01:13:14,980 --> 01:13:12,830
who number one is and it turns out to be

1713
01:13:17,380 --> 01:13:14,990
him or his inner soul or whatever that

1714
01:13:19,420 --> 01:13:17,390
happens in an episode of a secret agent

1715
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:19,430
so yeah I was like a you know like

1716
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:21,890
Patrick McGoohan statement artistic

1717
01:13:26,830 --> 01:13:24,530
statement you know and it only lasted

1718
01:13:29,830 --> 01:13:26,840
those few episodes because he only

1719
01:13:31,810 --> 01:13:29,840
intended it to last was episode 115 well

1720
01:13:33,790 --> 01:13:31,820
again so I'm gonna say at this time crow

1721
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:33,800
Chrisman who was being subpoenaed by Jim

1722
01:13:39,050 --> 01:13:36,330
Garrison in the JFK assassination

1723
01:13:41,480 --> 01:13:39,060
feels as if he's watching himself on

1724
01:13:44,090 --> 01:13:41,490
television every week in the invaders

1725
01:13:47,450 --> 01:13:44,100
and with Roy Thinnes Atari

1726
01:13:50,060 --> 01:13:47,460
yes yeah Wow he has anyone really

1727
01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:50,070
researched the writers of the invaders

1728
01:13:55,250 --> 01:13:52,320
and found out if there indeed is a link

1729
01:13:57,260 --> 01:13:55,260
or well no I mean the closest we got is

1730
01:14:00,770 --> 01:13:57,270
this mark shelf guy who his deep throat

1731
01:14:02,450 --> 01:14:00,780
in Watergate you know right and he works

1732
01:14:04,430 --> 01:14:02,460
for the FBI so we know the Quinn Martin

1733
01:14:07,070 --> 01:14:04,440
productions did hire people like that

1734
01:14:09,050 --> 01:14:07,080
and generally keep it secret I did meet

1735
01:14:11,450 --> 01:14:09,060
Roy Thinnes and explained all this to

1736
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:11,460
him and he was fascinated he didn't he

1737
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:13,890
did nothing what about it did Roy

1738
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:15,810
Thinnes have any awareness of this

1739
01:14:20,660 --> 01:14:18,330
mystique or the mystery that surrounded

1740
01:14:23,930 --> 01:14:20,670
that character they just think oh it's a

1741
01:14:26,050 --> 01:14:23,940
another acting gig it was really just

1742
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:26,060
another acting gig and I he didn't know

1743
01:14:33,710 --> 01:14:29,280
Chrisman was I think he did know though

1744
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:33,720
that George Adamski granddaughter worked

1745
01:14:37,130 --> 01:14:35,610
on this show and that saucer that you

1746
01:14:39,950 --> 01:14:37,140
see at the beginning of the invaders

1747
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:39,960
thing is a classic George Adamski saucer

1748
01:14:45,830 --> 01:14:42,930
kind of bell shaped with the globular

1749
01:14:49,100 --> 01:14:45,840
things underneath okay by the way since

1750
01:14:51,050 --> 01:14:49,110
we were talking before about connections

1751
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:51,060
and synchronicity now in a previous

1752
01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:52,650
week's episode when we were talking

1753
01:14:56,450 --> 01:14:54,510
about the Crystal Skull we mentioned

1754
01:14:58,220 --> 01:14:56,460
this movie where they featured crystal

1755
01:15:00,500 --> 01:14:58,230
skulls called the phantom you know based

1756
01:15:02,870 --> 01:15:00,510
on the comic book character and the

1757
01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:02,880
Phantom's dad was played by Patrick

1758
01:15:09,860 --> 01:15:07,980
McGoohan okay is that right remember the

1759
01:15:13,370 --> 01:15:09,870
Phantom with of course Billy Zane

1760
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:13,380
Catherine zeta-jones and he sees the

1761
01:15:18,230 --> 01:15:14,930
ghost of his father

1762
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:18,240
okay the previous phantom and that's

1763
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:21,360
Patrick Lewin who by the way was born in

1764
01:15:28,430 --> 01:15:25,770
America Loki second huh so doing is only

1765
01:15:32,510 --> 01:15:28,440
on screen for a few minutes you see him

1766
01:15:34,460 --> 01:15:32,520
on and off throughout the movie so you

1767
01:15:36,470 --> 01:15:34,470
do well get into more of the

1768
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:36,480
synchronicity and the strange

1769
01:15:41,540 --> 01:15:39,210
connections and conspiracies or power

1770
01:15:43,220 --> 01:15:41,550
politics with Kenneth Thomas the co-host

1771
01:15:51,950 --> 01:15:43,230
is Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

1772
01:15:57,620 --> 01:15:54,460
[Music]

1773
01:16:00,050 --> 01:15:57,630
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1774
01:16:02,020 --> 01:16:00,060
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

1775
01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:02,030
relentless perplexing nightmares

1776
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nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

1777
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space and of a mysterious woman's

1778
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suffering and agony for her devastated

1779
01:16:14,350 --> 01:16:10,860
world a woman not yet born calling

1780
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across centuries to him then a

1781
01:16:19,820 --> 01:16:16,830
coincidence leads him to his destiny his

1782
01:16:22,130 --> 01:16:19,830
chance to alter the universe attacked of

1783
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the rocket the former fiction editor for

1784
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Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

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Simpson writes the soul of the novel

1786
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attack of the Rockaways lies in its

1787
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heart and passion for building a

1788
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convincing tale of a love that spans the

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galaxy a thrilling storm attack of the

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rocket is available now read a sample

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and why do you need it

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1873
01:20:04,620 --> 01:20:02,080
we are the gcn radio network hello this

1874
01:20:07,140 --> 01:20:04,630
is John burrows one of the witnesses to

1875
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:07,150
the Rendlesham UFO incident you're

1876
01:20:18,450 --> 01:20:09,250
listening to the podcast the gold

1877
01:20:22,750 --> 01:20:20,770
you notice ladies and gentlemen this

1878
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:22,760
time I said you're in very quickly

1879
01:20:29,260 --> 01:20:25,970
hoping that I'd kind of trip up Chris

1880
01:20:31,420 --> 01:20:29,270
O'Brien my co-host and he was right on

1881
01:20:33,610 --> 01:20:31,430
the beat you see what he's ready he's

1882
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:33,620
ready Kenneth Thomas joining us we're

1883
01:20:37,690 --> 01:20:35,690
talking about power politics with

1884
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:37,700
finding all these weird connections

1885
01:20:43,980 --> 01:20:41,570
between fredchristman Harold Dahl the

1886
01:20:48,190 --> 01:20:43,990
Kennedy assassination Maury island

1887
01:20:50,410 --> 01:20:48,200
Patrick McGoohan guy banister discovery

1888
01:20:52,630 --> 01:20:50,420
in a 30-inch flying saucer that's news

1889
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:52,640
to me Ken well I'll tell you that's a

1890
01:20:58,540 --> 01:20:56,930
good one all these characters are front

1891
01:21:02,080 --> 01:20:58,550
page of a newspaper it's reproduced in

1892
01:21:03,730 --> 01:21:02,090
in the book JFK and UFO Wow actually

1893
01:21:06,150 --> 01:21:03,740
this whole title of the book is James

1894
01:21:08,410 --> 01:21:06,160
can you a little military-industrial

1895
01:21:13,420 --> 01:21:08,420
conspiracy and coverup some more Allen

1896
01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:13,430
to Dallas it's quite a mouthful doesn't

1897
01:21:19,930 --> 01:21:17,600
fall profanity from the tongue rolls

1898
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:19,940
right out of your mouth something like

1899
01:21:25,210 --> 01:21:23,330
that it is it's the it's the flagship of

1900
01:21:26,860 --> 01:21:25,220
the current product line it's steam

1901
01:21:29,290 --> 01:21:26,870
shovel press I should impress upon your

1902
01:21:31,480 --> 01:21:29,300
listeners that steam shovel press.com

1903
01:21:33,250 --> 01:21:31,490
is where you want to go to really follow

1904
01:21:35,170 --> 01:21:33,260
everything I'm doing because there are a

1905
01:21:37,150 --> 01:21:35,180
number of things although just today I

1906
01:21:39,130 --> 01:21:37,160
started a Facebook page for steam shovel

1907
01:21:41,700 --> 01:21:39,140
press too so you could maybe check that

1908
01:21:43,810 --> 01:21:41,710
as well your social network that I'm

1909
01:21:47,470 --> 01:21:43,820
discovering the joys of social

1910
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:47,480
networking yeah I'm a real dragon I've

1911
01:21:51,310 --> 01:21:48,650
been dragging my feet on it for years

1912
01:21:55,330 --> 01:21:51,320
but anyway JFK and UFO from Farrell

1913
01:21:58,600 --> 01:21:55,340
house is the big one on the website I

1914
01:22:01,330 --> 01:21:58,610
have an electronic PDF available only

1915
01:22:03,430 --> 01:22:01,340
through the websites called a popular

1916
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:03,440
pair of politics which is a group of

1917
01:22:06,550 --> 01:22:05,450
essays about my adventures in the

1918
01:22:09,340 --> 01:22:06,560
conspiracy subculture

1919
01:22:11,890 --> 01:22:09,350
I've got again the I wrote the foreword

1920
01:22:13,750 --> 01:22:11,900
for the case book on the men in black

1921
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:13,760
the new addition that adventures of

1922
01:22:18,130 --> 01:22:16,010
limited press just came out with I also

1923
01:22:20,590 --> 01:22:18,140
wrote an article on the the Nazi

1924
01:22:24,010 --> 01:22:20,600
connection to UFO history that appears

1925
01:22:25,870 --> 01:22:24,020
in round trip to hell and back in a

1926
01:22:28,330 --> 01:22:25,880
flying saucer that Timothy back we just

1927
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:28,340
published now what does this have to do

1928
01:22:33,370 --> 01:22:31,010
round trip to hell in a flying saucer

1929
01:22:34,959 --> 01:22:33,380
is a reprint of an old UFO book this

1930
01:22:37,689 --> 01:22:34,969
chapter can you maybe describe it

1931
01:22:38,830 --> 01:22:37,699
briefly well well it is a reprint of

1932
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:38,840
that book but there's a lot of add-on

1933
01:22:43,689 --> 01:22:40,250
stuff I buy a lot of different people

1934
01:22:46,899 --> 01:22:43,699
and my thing is what I write there is in

1935
01:22:48,609 --> 01:22:46,909
the history of a connection between UFOs

1936
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:48,619
and the Nazis which is really kind of

1937
01:22:53,709 --> 01:22:50,090
I'm sure well-known with a lot of people

1938
01:22:54,970 --> 01:22:53,719
who are listening what the Nazis are in

1939
01:22:57,310 --> 01:22:54,980
some of these people you know traces

1940
01:22:59,080 --> 01:22:57,320
back to the Thule Society that you know

1941
01:23:02,080 --> 01:22:59,090
a very early occult interest of the

1942
01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:02,090
Nazis but above and beyond that they

1943
01:23:09,910 --> 01:23:05,920
were developing aircraft at the end of

1944
01:23:13,569 --> 01:23:09,920
World War two that were saucer shaped

1945
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:13,579
and did incredible things and you know

1946
01:23:18,609 --> 01:23:16,489
this there's some idea that but the more

1947
01:23:19,959 --> 01:23:18,619
Island saying that the secret flying

1948
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:19,969
saucers if they're not from outer space

1949
01:23:24,339 --> 01:23:22,250
it's captured Nazi technology that we

1950
01:23:26,979 --> 01:23:24,349
were testing kind of thing so all that's

1951
01:23:29,709 --> 01:23:26,989
going on and our entire space program is

1952
01:23:31,890 --> 01:23:29,719
based on Nazi technology isn't it well

1953
01:23:34,620 --> 01:23:31,900
Operation Paperclip and that figures and

1954
01:23:37,359 --> 01:23:34,630
fairly heavily into this story because

1955
01:23:40,839 --> 01:23:37,369
when Gary garrison supposedly if you

1956
01:23:43,990 --> 01:23:40,849
ignore the high probability that he'd

1957
01:23:45,939 --> 01:23:44,000
heard of Chrisman in 47 Chrisman gets a

1958
01:23:47,259 --> 01:23:45,949
letter an anonymous letter from somebody

1959
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:47,269
that makes this connection between

1960
01:23:52,390 --> 01:23:49,610
Chrisman and Clay Shaw and supposedly

1961
01:23:55,660 --> 01:23:52,400
Clay Shaw was involved in the surrender

1962
01:23:57,790 --> 01:23:55,670
of Verner von blonde the top Nazi rocket

1963
01:23:59,410 --> 01:23:57,800
scientist and that's the connection to

1964
01:24:02,200 --> 01:23:59,420
Chrisman I have in the book though I

1965
01:24:05,410 --> 01:24:02,210
looked up in the National Archives here

1966
01:24:08,049 --> 01:24:05,420
a document that is exculpatory of Shaw

1967
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:08,059
in some sense then that demonstrates

1968
01:24:12,009 --> 01:24:09,650
that he was in the United States one von

1969
01:24:14,189 --> 01:24:12,019
Braun surrendered but you know he could

1970
01:24:17,319 --> 01:24:14,199
still have been coordinating the

1971
01:24:18,759 --> 01:24:17,329
Americans the US side of the surrender

1972
01:24:21,189 --> 01:24:18,769
so that you know that doesn't

1973
01:24:23,890 --> 01:24:21,199
necessarily totally disconnected from

1974
01:24:25,959 --> 01:24:23,900
that scenario Fred Lee Chrisman he seems

1975
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:25,969
to float in the periphery of the UFO

1976
01:24:30,339 --> 01:24:28,730
field he's supposedly somehow connected

1977
01:24:33,100 --> 01:24:30,349
with the Kennedy assassination and even

1978
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:33,110
had a talk radio show at one time so who

1979
01:24:46,190 --> 01:24:43,400
I go through it all and there is in fact

1980
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:46,200
even a sidebar on his life as a

1981
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:47,760
right-wing radio talk-show host

1982
01:24:51,890 --> 01:24:50,250
there was a newsletter called homefront

1983
01:24:53,750 --> 01:24:51,900
that's just in the course of my research

1984
01:24:57,530 --> 01:24:53,760
I stumbled upon accidentally that gives

1985
01:25:01,700 --> 01:24:57,540
a whole snapshot view of what life was

1986
01:25:03,710 --> 01:25:01,710
like with Chrisman and you know he can't

1987
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:03,720
you know people think he's a con man

1988
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:05,730
some people think he's a con man some

1989
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:07,170
people think he's really wizard

1990
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:09,810
counterintelligence guy and when you

1991
01:25:15,530 --> 01:25:12,570
review the history of it all it's kind

1992
01:25:17,420 --> 01:25:15,540
of hard to reach a conclusion but there

1993
01:25:21,020 --> 01:25:17,430
is one interesting aspect of it is that

1994
01:25:23,810 --> 01:25:21,030
during that time when he was a talk-show

1995
01:25:26,270 --> 01:25:23,820
host he was doing all that under the

1996
01:25:28,010 --> 01:25:26,280
name of John Gould and he even wrote a

1997
01:25:29,660 --> 01:25:28,020
book because he was involved also in the

1998
01:25:31,970 --> 01:25:29,670
city politics of Tacoma and he wrote a

1999
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:31,980
book called murder of the city which

2000
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:34,800
he's talking about the the political

2001
01:25:38,540 --> 01:25:36,570
structure of Tacoma and how he he tried

2002
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:38,550
to change it and even makes the case

2003
01:25:42,770 --> 01:25:40,530
that when he was doing his politics that

2004
01:25:46,430 --> 01:25:42,780
somebody tried to assassinate him but in

2005
01:25:48,770 --> 01:25:46,440
that book he talks about his business

2006
01:25:52,100 --> 01:25:48,780
partner at the time the guy named

2007
01:25:54,710 --> 01:25:52,110
Marshall the car Sciuto and rakonin

2008
01:25:56,690 --> 01:25:54,720
shudos son even his son even makes a

2009
01:25:58,940 --> 01:25:56,700
cameo appearance there guy named michael

2010
01:26:01,280 --> 01:25:58,950
record Sciuto there's a famous figure in

2011
01:26:04,430 --> 01:26:01,290
my other most well-known book the

2012
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:04,440
octopus he is the main informant to

2013
01:26:09,020 --> 01:26:05,520
Danny casolaro

2014
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:09,030
this this reporter who was investigating

2015
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:12,210
a global transnational cabal that he

2016
01:26:15,890 --> 01:26:14,250
called the octopus and michael kranish

2017
01:26:17,810 --> 01:26:15,900
Sciuto was involved in the development

2018
01:26:19,970 --> 01:26:17,820
of something called the promis software

2019
01:26:21,350 --> 01:26:19,980
which is connected to the inflow scandal

2020
01:26:22,910 --> 01:26:21,360
of the 80s and there's a whole nother

2021
01:26:25,310 --> 01:26:22,920
book on it so you and then that's all

2022
01:26:26,900 --> 01:26:25,320
80's and 90's and going forward and in

2023
01:26:28,730 --> 01:26:26,910
fact Osama bin Laden supposedly was

2024
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:28,740
given this promise software and that's

2025
01:26:32,930 --> 01:26:30,960
how he escaped capture all those years

2026
01:26:36,380 --> 01:26:32,940
so you see multi-generational

2027
01:26:38,450 --> 01:26:36,390
connections between not only because

2028
01:26:40,510 --> 01:26:38,460
vikraanta Sciuto has his UFO stories too

2029
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:40,520
but you see this kind of intertwined

2030
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:44,250
action between the UFO subculture and

2031
01:26:48,470 --> 01:26:46,170
the counterintelligence world going

2032
01:26:52,790 --> 01:26:48,480
through a couple of generations and

2033
01:27:01,620 --> 01:26:57,390
okay so Crispin of course is long dead

2034
01:27:03,089 --> 01:27:01,630
now right died 1925 okay

2035
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:03,099
and that's a bit of a controversy

2036
01:27:10,350 --> 01:27:05,650
because if he was gonna be anything else

2037
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:10,360
was Chrisman but a controversy he felt

2038
01:27:13,950 --> 01:27:12,130
as he was being abducted because he'd be

2039
01:27:15,390 --> 01:27:13,960
passing a kidney problems he passing I

2040
01:27:18,359 --> 01:27:15,400
need to wake up in a hospital surrounded

2041
01:27:21,240 --> 01:27:18,369
by all these creepy looking people and

2042
01:27:22,169 --> 01:27:21,250
they're in their instruments and so he

2043
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:22,179
told people he thought he's being

2044
01:27:26,790 --> 01:27:25,210
abducted by aliens and actually Budd

2045
01:27:29,910 --> 01:27:26,800
Hopkins and all those people that become

2046
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:29,920
mine so later than 75 although you had

2047
01:27:34,260 --> 01:27:32,290
that tease like the hills Betty Barney

2048
01:27:36,180 --> 01:27:34,270
Hill back in 66 but there's no

2049
01:27:40,580 --> 01:27:36,190
connection between Fred Lee Crispin and

2050
01:27:44,370 --> 01:27:40,590
Budd Hopkins is there no I burned off

2051
01:27:50,310 --> 01:27:44,380
all right this second okay connect

2052
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:50,320
everything but no that's just something

2053
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:54,489
you know in his dying days but after all

2054
01:27:58,530 --> 01:27:56,050
these years putting together a new

2055
01:28:02,609 --> 01:27:58,540
edition of this book what information is

2056
01:28:05,970 --> 01:28:02,619
left to be found that we can find oh I

2057
01:28:08,339 --> 01:28:05,980
thought a ton of stuff my favorite is

2058
01:28:10,770 --> 01:28:08,349
the Gerald herd stuff you know because I

2059
01:28:12,990 --> 01:28:10,780
was trying to investigate why herd drops

2060
01:28:14,459 --> 01:28:13,000
but that chapter in my Island I still

2061
01:28:14,939 --> 01:28:14,469
haven't read that chapter no I know

2062
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:14,949
what's out there

2063
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:17,170
all right now gel herd doing what who

2064
01:28:21,810 --> 01:28:20,050
was he Gerald herd is the famous British

2065
01:28:24,589 --> 01:28:21,820
philosopher he's kind of in with Aldous

2066
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:24,599
Huxley and and all those guys in the 60s

2067
01:28:31,470 --> 01:28:28,810
and he wrote basically one of the first

2068
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:31,480
books of the modern era called the

2069
01:28:36,990 --> 01:28:35,050
riddle of the flying saucers and in

2070
01:28:38,430 --> 01:28:37,000
America it came out under the title is

2071
01:28:39,660 --> 01:28:38,440
another world watching and the

2072
01:28:41,459 --> 01:28:39,670
difference between the two editions is

2073
01:28:42,870 --> 01:28:41,469
been more Island chapter apparently

2074
01:28:44,790 --> 01:28:42,880
there's a Maury island chapter in the

2075
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:44,800
British version that was left out of the

2076
01:28:49,979 --> 01:28:47,290
American version in the court now how do

2077
01:28:52,950 --> 01:28:49,989
you find out why in the course of doing

2078
01:28:56,339 --> 01:28:52,960
this research just just by happenstance

2079
01:28:58,350 --> 01:28:56,349
I discovered that heard actually gave a

2080
01:29:01,109 --> 01:28:58,360
lecture here in town where I live at a

2081
01:29:04,569 --> 01:29:01,119
local university in 1950 the same time

2082
01:29:06,850 --> 01:29:04,579
that that book was coming up

2083
01:29:08,770 --> 01:29:06,860
and I'm thinking well maybe he said

2084
01:29:09,430 --> 01:29:08,780
something about Moya maybe I can find

2085
01:29:11,620 --> 01:29:09,440
something here

2086
01:29:14,020 --> 01:29:11,630
so I go to the college that actually has

2087
01:29:17,649 --> 01:29:14,030
the tape and they won't let me listen to

2088
01:29:22,410 --> 01:29:17,659
it they say it's too old if they if they

2089
01:29:29,549 --> 01:29:24,459
shelf life that's one of the problems

2090
01:29:33,939 --> 01:29:32,379
Kenneth Thomas and we're talking about

2091
01:29:35,879 --> 01:29:33,949
Peres politics the Kennedy assassination

2092
01:29:38,979 --> 01:29:35,889
Maury island

2093
01:29:40,689 --> 01:29:38,989
Gerald heard the late philosopher who

2094
01:29:43,030 --> 01:29:40,699
wrote a book about UFOs which I read by

2095
01:29:46,780 --> 01:29:43,040
the way long long ago in a galaxy far

2096
01:29:51,890 --> 01:29:46,790
far away because Chris O'Brien I'm Jean

2097
01:29:56,859 --> 01:29:54,660
[Music]

2098
01:29:58,959 --> 01:29:56,869
graphic converter is the image

2099
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2100
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2140
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2141
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2142
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2143
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2148
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2149
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2150
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2154
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2155
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2156
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2157
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2158
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2159
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2160
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2161
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2163
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2165
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2166
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2167
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2168
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2169
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2170
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2171
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2172
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2173
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2174
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2175
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2176
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2177
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2178
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2179
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2183
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2184
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2185
01:33:22,500 --> 01:33:20,980
hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

2186
01:33:24,060 --> 01:33:22,510
wondered why banks stockbrokers

2187
01:33:24,859 --> 01:33:24,070
investment advisors won't talk about

2188
01:33:27,260 --> 01:33:24,869
gold

2189
01:33:29,030 --> 01:33:27,270
they've been available since 1986 yet

2190
01:33:30,589 --> 01:33:29,040
the financial industry won't recognize

2191
01:33:32,930 --> 01:33:30,599
the value of gold for your retirement

2192
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:32,940
gold has outperformed paper investments

2193
01:33:37,270 --> 01:33:35,130
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

2194
01:33:40,580 --> 01:33:37,280
to have gold for your retirement call

2195
01:33:55,990 --> 01:33:40,590
866 to 237 don't get left behind by

2196
01:34:28,339 --> 01:34:24,740
806-853-9949 chris exploring power

2197
01:34:30,620 --> 01:34:28,349
politics so okay you went to check out

2198
01:34:31,820 --> 01:34:30,630
this recording of his speech but of

2199
01:34:34,550 --> 01:34:31,830
course they wouldn't let you hear it

2200
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:34,560
because they say the tape just wouldn't

2201
01:34:37,820 --> 01:34:36,210
hold up they're falling apart and I'm

2202
01:34:40,129 --> 01:34:37,830
dealing with the archivist at this

2203
01:34:42,260 --> 01:34:40,139
College is someone I trained you know I

2204
01:34:44,810 --> 01:34:42,270
worked in an archives I have for two and

2205
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:44,820
a half decades and a lot of the archives

2206
01:34:49,970 --> 01:34:47,040
around here are staffed by people that I

2207
01:34:52,250 --> 01:34:49,980
helped train and I'm like come on

2208
01:34:53,780 --> 01:34:52,260
great it gives me the tape I'll take it

2209
01:34:56,419 --> 01:34:53,790
to my office we have digitizing

2210
01:34:58,729 --> 01:34:56,429
equipment oh no I'm sorry the archives

2211
01:35:00,530 --> 01:34:58,739
do not circulate I'm like what is the

2212
01:35:02,419 --> 01:35:00,540
point of having a tape and an archives

2213
01:35:04,280 --> 01:35:02,429
that nobody can listen to and it just so

2214
01:35:07,220 --> 01:35:04,290
happens I was losing this battle and it

2215
01:35:09,530 --> 01:35:07,230
just so happens that a vendor approaches

2216
01:35:11,359 --> 01:35:09,540
this archives about digitizing their

2217
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:11,369
collections they don't have money to do

2218
01:35:15,649 --> 01:35:13,290
it of course and that all archives are

2219
01:35:18,830 --> 01:35:15,659
underfunded but you know the vendor

2220
01:35:22,399 --> 01:35:18,840
wants to show them a sample of its work

2221
01:35:24,140 --> 01:35:22,409
so since I know the person there and she

2222
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:24,150
wanted to accommodate me she was put in

2223
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:26,250
she gave the tape to the vendor the

2224
01:35:32,359 --> 01:35:28,050
vendor digitized it and I got to listen

2225
01:35:35,300 --> 01:35:32,369
to Gerald's heard speak in 1950 and of

2226
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:35,310
course no answers about more islands but

2227
01:35:41,189 --> 01:35:38,650
a fabulous fabulous lecture

2228
01:35:44,669 --> 01:35:41,199
about what's going on at the time you

2229
01:35:46,260 --> 01:35:44,679
know and here's a scientific guy that's

2230
01:35:49,530 --> 01:35:46,270
some crazy person and he's trying to

2231
01:35:52,740 --> 01:35:49,540
break it down for a very staid 1950

2232
01:35:55,770 --> 01:35:52,750
audience and he gives this wonderful

2233
01:35:59,010 --> 01:35:55,780
lecture that involves one of my favorite

2234
01:36:01,050 --> 01:35:59,020
stories the story of Galileo and the the

2235
01:36:02,820 --> 01:36:01,060
moons of Jupiter it's kind of well known

2236
01:36:05,459 --> 01:36:02,830
Arthur Castille writes about it yeah

2237
01:36:07,169 --> 01:36:05,469
Galileo invites these clerics over to

2238
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:07,179
look at the moons of Jupiter in his

2239
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:09,850
early telescope the clerics look through

2240
01:36:13,979 --> 01:36:11,530
it you know you know you could do it

2241
01:36:16,140 --> 01:36:13,989
tonight you could see it the clerics

2242
01:36:18,510 --> 01:36:16,150
couldn't they couldn't see it because it

2243
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:18,520
didn't fit their paradigm their paradigm

2244
01:36:22,439 --> 01:36:20,050
of an earth-centered world it couldn't

2245
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:22,449
be another world that had moons around

2246
01:36:25,350 --> 01:36:24,010
it but we know of that could be true

2247
01:36:27,750 --> 01:36:25,360
that's the famous story and that's what

2248
01:36:29,399 --> 01:36:27,760
Kessler in his book the sleepwalker says

2249
01:36:31,890 --> 01:36:29,409
that's the same thing that's gone with

2250
01:36:33,149 --> 01:36:31,900
the flying saucers scientists can't see

2251
01:36:35,189 --> 01:36:33,159
them because it doesn't fit into their

2252
01:36:37,050 --> 01:36:35,199
paradigm which is a cool moral lesson

2253
01:36:38,100 --> 01:36:37,060
but Gerald Hurd had another spin on it

2254
01:36:39,450 --> 01:36:38,110
that I felt was necessarily playing

2255
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:39,460
because another thing we know about

2256
01:36:45,630 --> 01:36:43,690
Galileo is that he saw Saturn and with

2257
01:36:47,270 --> 01:36:45,640
the primitive equipment that he had the

2258
01:36:49,830 --> 01:36:47,280
rings of Saturn looked like little

2259
01:36:51,630 --> 01:36:49,840
teacup handles and he couldn't figure

2260
01:36:54,630 --> 01:36:51,640
that out and he makes a note in his

2261
01:36:57,600 --> 01:36:54,640
Diaries the Saturn devours its children

2262
01:37:00,000 --> 01:36:57,610
which goes back to an ancient myth about

2263
01:37:01,350 --> 01:37:00,010
Saturn at the ancients used to describe

2264
01:37:03,780 --> 01:37:01,360
the planets and then he doesn't visit

2265
01:37:05,130 --> 01:37:03,790
Saturn again maybe once or twice he

2266
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:05,140
maybe takes a couple notes but he

2267
01:37:08,729 --> 01:37:06,610
doesn't study it you know this was a

2268
01:37:10,500 --> 01:37:08,739
kind of discovered the moons of Jupiter

2269
01:37:12,209 --> 01:37:10,510
I mean he couldn't make one great one

2270
01:37:14,700 --> 01:37:12,219
another great discovery discovering the

2271
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:14,710
rings of Saturn but he felt according to

2272
01:37:18,689 --> 01:37:16,449
her she's a brilliant analysis of what's

2273
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:18,699
going on he felt that the ancients knew

2274
01:37:22,110 --> 01:37:20,170
something about that planet that he

2275
01:37:24,390 --> 01:37:22,120
didn't know and he couldn't figure out

2276
01:37:27,899 --> 01:37:24,400
so because of his hubris because they

2277
01:37:30,510 --> 01:37:27,909
didn't want to further pursue that he

2278
01:37:32,610 --> 01:37:30,520
did not become the discoverer of the

2279
01:37:33,990 --> 01:37:32,620
rings of Saturn so you have the clerics

2280
01:37:35,430 --> 01:37:34,000
who couldn't see things because of their

2281
01:37:37,110 --> 01:37:35,440
paradigm then you had the scientist the

2282
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:37,120
great scientist Galileo who wouldn't and

2283
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:39,370
it's such a perfect to me so it's a

2284
01:37:45,810 --> 01:37:43,050
perfect summation of the problem of

2285
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:45,820
trying to understand UFOs and flying

2286
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:48,010
saucers that you know even though I

2287
01:37:51,490 --> 01:37:49,449
didn't get any answers about his molar

2288
01:37:53,050 --> 01:37:51,500
Island chapter I just

2289
01:37:55,860 --> 01:37:53,060
really fortunate to be able to hear that

2290
01:37:58,240 --> 01:37:55,870
lecture at all well you can what other

2291
01:38:00,340 --> 01:37:58,250
projects have you been I know you you've

2292
01:38:02,440 --> 01:38:00,350
got a lot of irons in the fire you you

2293
01:38:05,230 --> 01:38:02,450
you're meticulous researcher you've got

2294
01:38:07,510 --> 01:38:05,240
a lot of I'm sure what works in progress

2295
01:38:11,260 --> 01:38:07,520
any other projects that you'd like to

2296
01:38:13,420 --> 01:38:11,270
talk about well I mentioned the the big

2297
01:38:16,300 --> 01:38:13,430
three that you can get through the steam

2298
01:38:18,310 --> 01:38:16,310
shovel press comm website I'm not quite

2299
01:38:21,700 --> 01:38:18,320
sure publishing is in such a state of

2300
01:38:24,810 --> 01:38:21,710
flux now the next book that I would like

2301
01:38:28,420 --> 01:38:24,820
to do is something I call Wilhelm Reich

2302
01:38:30,430 --> 01:38:28,430
technology at space but I don't know if

2303
01:38:33,700 --> 01:38:30,440
I should you know give it to one of my

2304
01:38:37,090 --> 01:38:33,710
publishers or if I should just do one of

2305
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:37,100
those print-on-demand things which seems

2306
01:38:40,810 --> 01:38:39,290
to be the way to go so it's you know

2307
01:38:42,340 --> 01:38:40,820
it's a great area what I'm what I'm

2308
01:38:44,790 --> 01:38:42,350
going to do next in the immediate future

2309
01:38:48,700 --> 01:38:44,800
of course I want to spend a lot of time

2310
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:48,710
promoting JFK and USO and you know if

2311
01:38:51,250 --> 01:38:49,730
there's if there are people out there

2312
01:38:54,580 --> 01:38:51,260
that want to let me come I got a great

2313
01:38:55,930 --> 01:38:54,590
lecture on this I'm happy to do a

2314
01:38:58,570 --> 01:38:55,940
lecture in the book signing say for

2315
01:39:00,490 --> 01:38:58,580
anybody who let's forgive me that kind

2316
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:00,500
of attention well we have time to even

2317
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:02,930
talk about it further and get more into

2318
01:39:06,550 --> 01:39:05,090
this connection but of course you know

2319
01:39:09,070 --> 01:39:06,560
you go back and you have the stories

2320
01:39:11,350 --> 01:39:09,080
back in the 50s at Eisenhower you know

2321
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:11,360
supposedly he went to a dentist but he

2322
01:39:17,170 --> 01:39:13,370
wasn't really going to a dentist he was

2323
01:39:19,330 --> 01:39:17,180
checking out the crashed UFO so that's

2324
01:39:20,770 --> 01:39:19,340
right and actually I have a I tell that

2325
01:39:23,110 --> 01:39:20,780
whole story in another book that

2326
01:39:25,420 --> 01:39:23,120
recently published by feral house called

2327
01:39:29,200 --> 01:39:25,430
secret inch suppressed - I have a whole

2328
01:39:31,390 --> 01:39:29,210
essay on it Wilhelm Reich and is the

2329
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:31,400
possible Ally to Eisenhower in his

2330
01:39:36,460 --> 01:39:35,330
negotiations with the aliens now we've

2331
01:39:39,490 --> 01:39:36,470
got a story here

2332
01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:39,500
and I know that my wife had studied some

2333
01:39:44,740 --> 01:39:42,410
of the works of Wilhelm Reich years and

2334
01:39:46,420 --> 01:39:44,750
years ago my first wife Geneva and I

2335
01:39:46,930 --> 01:39:46,430
don't know if she still is interested in

2336
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:46,940
that or not

2337
01:39:50,560 --> 01:39:48,890
but the thing I want to ask about here

2338
01:39:53,410 --> 01:39:50,570
maybe you explained because we only hear

2339
01:39:55,810 --> 01:39:53,420
much about right these days who and what

2340
01:39:58,060 --> 01:39:55,820
he was was discoveries with Oregon

2341
01:40:00,390 --> 01:39:58,070
energy were about and how would there be

2342
01:40:02,979 --> 01:40:00,400
a possible connection with Eisenhower oh

2343
01:40:07,810 --> 01:40:02,989
okay

2344
01:40:09,790 --> 01:40:07,820
mm in 30 words or like a monograph Reich

2345
01:40:13,450 --> 01:40:09,800
was a protege of Sigmund Freud he was

2346
01:40:16,570 --> 01:40:13,460
one of the if Viennese the inner circle

2347
01:40:17,830 --> 01:40:16,580
the psychoanalytic a crowd he was

2348
01:40:19,180 --> 01:40:17,840
actually kicked out of that for being

2349
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:19,190
too much of a communist and then he was

2350
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:20,810
kicked out of the Dutch Communist Party

2351
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:24,170
for being too much of a Freudian and he

2352
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:28,010
fled the Nazis and to Norway where he

2353
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:29,930
started doing this experimental work

2354
01:40:35,050 --> 01:40:32,330
that demonstrated to him a certain kind

2355
01:40:37,150 --> 01:40:35,060
of energy that that pulsates in the

2356
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:37,160
atmosphere that he called Oregon and

2357
01:40:41,170 --> 01:40:39,050
then he fled further to the United

2358
01:40:43,810 --> 01:40:41,180
States and he developed technologies to

2359
01:40:45,970 --> 01:40:43,820
manipulate that energy and one of the

2360
01:40:48,780 --> 01:40:45,980
technologies was the cloudbuster gun

2361
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:48,790
that he found was also useful in

2362
01:40:55,300 --> 01:40:52,130
combating flying saucers that came down

2363
01:40:57,459 --> 01:40:55,310
around his lab in Rangeley Maine

2364
01:41:01,450 --> 01:40:57,469
how would you combat flying saucers did

2365
01:41:04,090 --> 01:41:01,460
not come out of the sky there like

2366
01:41:05,709 --> 01:41:04,100
blinking in the sky and you yeah aim the

2367
01:41:08,140 --> 01:41:05,719
cloudbuster gun at them and they stopped

2368
01:41:12,250 --> 01:41:08,150
blinking they'd go away then they go

2369
01:41:14,770 --> 01:41:12,260
away or just affect their light source

2370
01:41:17,590 --> 01:41:14,780
well they disappeared effectively enough

2371
01:41:19,690 --> 01:41:17,600
I mean like of course he's not declaring

2372
01:41:21,729 --> 01:41:19,700
victory he's just taking notes and in

2373
01:41:23,350 --> 01:41:21,739
fact what happens after that and it's a

2374
01:41:25,060 --> 01:41:23,360
it's a whole lot to the story I went do

2375
01:41:27,100 --> 01:41:25,070
a whole book on it but after that he

2376
01:41:30,490 --> 01:41:27,110
took the COG buster guns down to Tucson

2377
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:30,500
Arizona and along the way he very

2378
01:41:37,270 --> 01:41:34,610
clearly goes through Roswell New Mexico

2379
01:41:39,790 --> 01:41:37,280
deliberately and he discusses how it

2380
01:41:43,540 --> 01:41:39,800
seems to be affected by an alien

2381
01:41:45,100 --> 01:41:43,550
presence and this is in 1955 now you got

2382
01:41:47,229 --> 01:41:45,110
a whole crowd of people out there to see

2383
01:41:49,180 --> 01:41:47,239
the Roswell thing is a big fantasy that

2384
01:41:52,090 --> 01:41:49,190
Sam Friedman and all these people came

2385
01:41:55,330 --> 01:41:52,100
up with in the 1980s when it was just a

2386
01:41:56,350 --> 01:41:55,340
blip on on the news cycle in 1947 it

2387
01:41:59,229 --> 01:41:56,360
didn't go anywhere nobody said anything

2388
01:42:01,660 --> 01:41:59,239
about it until Stan and Shandi and those

2389
01:42:03,729 --> 01:42:01,670
people came along well here's a clear

2390
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:03,739
example in Reich's last book which I

2391
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:05,930
literally is hard to come by but cold

2392
01:42:12,490 --> 01:42:08,570
contact with space but it is there and

2393
01:42:14,830 --> 01:42:12,500
he is talking about Roswell so he takes

2394
01:42:16,570 --> 01:42:14,840
his cloudbuster guns out to Tucson and

2395
01:42:19,210 --> 01:42:16,580
he's fighting UFOs out there and

2396
01:42:22,570 --> 01:42:19,220
he's making reports to Eisenhower you

2397
01:42:24,580 --> 01:42:22,580
know he's a he's a good boy scout kind

2398
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:24,590
of a believing liberal Republicans voted

2399
01:42:30,820 --> 01:42:26,810
for Eisenhower and Eisenhower

2400
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:30,830
commissioned him to do this no okay he

2401
01:42:38,860 --> 01:42:35,210
did it but he kept sending reports on it

2402
01:42:41,080 --> 01:42:38,870
to government sources and of course many

2403
01:42:43,660 --> 01:42:41,090
people take this as his dementia that

2404
01:42:45,580 --> 01:42:43,670
there were government sources but you in

2405
01:42:48,700 --> 01:42:45,590
this essay in secret and suppressed true

2406
01:42:50,830 --> 01:42:48,710
I demonstrate that no he gave these

2407
01:42:53,290 --> 01:42:50,840
reports to official people specifically

2408
01:42:55,990 --> 01:42:53,300
lou douglas was a member of Eisenhower's

2409
01:42:58,600 --> 01:42:56,000
kitchen cabinet and they scheduled

2410
01:43:00,280 --> 01:42:58,610
meetings with him not only that but

2411
01:43:04,210 --> 01:43:00,290
those meetings the dates of those

2412
01:43:06,070 --> 01:43:04,220
meetings coincide exactly with one of

2413
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:06,080
the mj-12 documents which a lot of

2414
01:43:10,210 --> 01:43:08,570
people dismiss as hoaxes and maybe a lot

2415
01:43:12,460 --> 01:43:10,220
of those documents are hoaxes but that

2416
01:43:13,900 --> 01:43:12,470
one because of its connection to the Lou

2417
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:13,910
Douglas archives discovered by

2418
01:43:16,690 --> 01:43:15,770
researcher years later thousands of

2419
01:43:18,310 --> 01:43:16,700
miles apart

2420
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:18,320
it's a triangulation of research that

2421
01:43:23,710 --> 01:43:21,410
absolutely as far as anything ever has

2422
01:43:25,990 --> 01:43:23,720
been determined proves the existence of

2423
01:43:29,500 --> 01:43:26,000
a group called mj-12 so that's all laid

2424
01:43:31,300 --> 01:43:29,510
out in that students present so so there

2425
01:43:34,900 --> 01:43:31,310
were official contacts between Reich and

2426
01:43:36,790 --> 01:43:34,910
the government and in fact I think even

2427
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:36,800
show this in the book the Air Force

2428
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:40,010
later developed its own weapon that

2429
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:42,410
looks exactly like a cloudbuster gun and

2430
01:43:47,830 --> 01:43:44,570
they in fact called it the cloud buster

2431
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:47,840
yeah but isn't it also true that the

2432
01:43:51,940 --> 01:43:49,610
government went after Wilhelm Reich

2433
01:43:56,620 --> 01:43:51,950
saying that he was perpetrating a fraud

2434
01:43:58,600 --> 01:43:56,630
right right because the in addition to

2435
01:44:00,010 --> 01:43:58,610
the claw duster gun in a prior to the

2436
01:44:02,910 --> 01:44:00,020
cloudbuster gun effect he created

2437
01:44:05,290 --> 01:44:02,920
something called the Oregon box which is

2438
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:05,300
multi levels organic and inorganic

2439
01:44:10,540 --> 01:44:07,610
material that you would sit in and

2440
01:44:13,030 --> 01:44:10,550
accumulate orgone energy and I

2441
01:44:15,730 --> 01:44:13,040
personally verified this one time in

2442
01:44:17,770 --> 01:44:15,740
England whether the BBC producer we took

2443
01:44:19,140 --> 01:44:17,780
an Oregon box to an infrared imaging lab

2444
01:44:21,370 --> 01:44:19,150
state-of-the-art equipment and

2445
01:44:23,080 --> 01:44:21,380
demonstrated what's called the

2446
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:23,090
temperature differential I'll tell you

2447
01:44:27,880 --> 01:44:24,650
what we'll get into more of Oregon

2448
01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:27,890
energy wilhelm reich ufos

2449
01:44:32,440 --> 01:44:30,170
Eisenhower and more we have Kenneth

2450
01:44:42,570 --> 01:44:32,450
Thomas the cause is Chris O'Brien on

2451
01:44:47,169 --> 01:44:44,520
[Music]

2452
01:44:49,179 --> 01:44:47,179
hi Ted Anderson announcing a great way

2453
01:44:51,159 --> 01:44:49,189
to listen to radio on the telephone by

2454
01:44:53,020 --> 01:44:51,169
calling seven six oh five six nine

2455
01:44:55,479 --> 01:44:53,030
seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing

2456
01:44:57,849 --> 01:44:55,489
GCM live.com programs in seconds

2457
01:44:59,919 --> 01:44:57,859
come to GCN live.com find your favorite

2458
01:45:02,529 --> 01:44:59,929
host dedicated phone number and hear

2459
01:45:05,199 --> 01:45:02,539
them 24/7 you heard me right every show

2460
01:45:07,149 --> 01:45:05,209
has a dedicated phone number stop by GC

2461
01:45:09,549 --> 01:45:07,159
and live.com and bookmark their number

2462
01:45:12,250 --> 01:45:09,559
today and again that's seven six oh five

2463
01:45:13,569 --> 01:45:12,260
six nine seventy seven hundred we the

2464
01:45:15,459 --> 01:45:13,579
people grow cotton wheat fabric

2465
01:45:16,899 --> 01:45:15,469
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

2466
01:45:18,489 --> 01:45:16,909
protect from counterfeit than carding to

2467
01:45:18,909 --> 01:45:18,499
a private bank having a led back at

2468
01:45:20,500 --> 01:45:18,919
interest

2469
01:45:22,179 --> 01:45:20,510
forcing taxes to service debt this

2470
01:45:23,469 --> 01:45:22,189
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

2471
01:45:24,969 --> 01:45:23,479
stating a central bank issuing the

2472
01:45:25,959 --> 01:45:24,979
public currency is a greater menace to

2473
01:45:27,189 --> 01:45:25,969
the liberties of the people than a

2474
01:45:28,479 --> 01:45:27,199
standing army today understand I'm

2475
01:45:30,159 --> 01:45:28,489
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2476
01:45:33,310 --> 01:45:30,169
that explains our monetary system call

2477
01:45:36,489 --> 01:45:33,320
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2478
01:45:44,159 --> 01:45:36,499
to understand the system call 866 to 237

2479
01:45:50,259 --> 01:45:47,169
welcome back to the pear cast the gold

2480
01:45:55,570 --> 01:45:50,269
standard of paranormal radio and now

2481
01:46:00,710 --> 01:45:57,530
[Music]

2482
01:46:03,290 --> 01:46:00,720
you know we've had some unusual things

2483
01:46:07,220 --> 01:46:03,300
happen when we do the para cast for

2484
01:46:09,410 --> 01:46:07,230
example in a recent episode Chris lost

2485
01:46:10,940 --> 01:46:09,420
his broadband connection so we had to

2486
01:46:13,550 --> 01:46:10,950
use a telephone for the last two

2487
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:13,560
segments we're in the final hour of this

2488
01:46:18,140 --> 01:46:15,810
episode of the para cast with Kenneth

2489
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:18,150
Thomas talking about power politics and

2490
01:46:29,420 --> 01:46:22,010
guess what my broadband internet access

2491
01:46:33,020 --> 01:46:29,430
disappeared we're talking about the

2492
01:46:36,860 --> 01:46:33,030
Oregon box Wilhelm Reich the Oregon box

2493
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:36,870
and suddenly whoops we lose our

2494
01:46:43,850 --> 01:46:41,250
connection tell me that's not weird here

2495
01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:43,860
that dr. right they're still trying to

2496
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:51,210
suppress you somebody doesn't like us

2497
01:46:57,350 --> 01:46:55,050
over there I think it's aliens aliens in

2498
01:46:59,630 --> 01:46:57,360
the internet they're real actually at

2499
01:47:02,330 --> 01:46:59,640
one time I was at the whole life Expo or

2500
01:47:04,490 --> 01:47:02,340
Terence Mckenna was speaking and he went

2501
01:47:07,430 --> 01:47:04,500
off on that whole theme about an alien

2502
01:47:09,590 --> 01:47:07,440
presence inside the Internet and at the

2503
01:47:11,120 --> 01:47:09,600
same whole life Expo was Whitley

2504
01:47:13,790 --> 01:47:11,130
Strieber who came on later and he

2505
01:47:16,430 --> 01:47:13,800
started to pulling the very idea because

2506
01:47:18,230 --> 01:47:16,440
he had been abducted by little grey

2507
01:47:19,670 --> 01:47:18,240
creatures and he wanted to see those he

2508
01:47:23,300 --> 01:47:19,680
don't want to hear about no aliens in

2509
01:47:25,460 --> 01:47:23,310
the Internet thank heavens you won't be

2510
01:47:27,350 --> 01:47:25,470
hearing whitley strieber talk about

2511
01:47:28,970 --> 01:47:27,360
aliens or anything else on the show not

2512
01:47:31,670 --> 01:47:28,980
because we wouldn't invite him but

2513
01:47:34,310 --> 01:47:31,680
because he said that he's being insulted

2514
01:47:36,140 --> 01:47:34,320
in our forums and because he is being

2515
01:47:37,160 --> 01:47:36,150
insulted in our forums and some people

2516
01:47:38,030 --> 01:47:37,170
in our forums didn't say nice things

2517
01:47:39,650 --> 01:47:38,040
about you

2518
01:47:42,440 --> 01:47:39,660
and that's unfortunate because you're a

2519
01:47:44,480 --> 01:47:42,450
nice guy you know we don't agree price

2520
01:47:47,390 --> 01:47:44,490
that anybody would actually take umbrage

2521
01:47:48,980 --> 01:47:47,400
I mean how often how many years do you

2522
01:47:52,310 --> 01:47:48,990
have to have been published to to

2523
01:47:53,510 --> 01:47:52,320
develop a thick skin about I mean what

2524
01:47:56,930 --> 01:47:53,520
do you expect everybody's just going to

2525
01:47:59,260 --> 01:47:56,940
come on and sing your your name in an

2526
01:48:07,220 --> 01:47:59,270
angelic songs of course there's yeah

2527
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:07,230
evidently he does inside this box and

2528
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:10,370
explain what it does

2529
01:48:15,190 --> 01:48:12,890
its properties are and are there still

2530
01:48:17,590 --> 01:48:15,200
Oregon boxes out there well the last

2531
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:17,600
official Oregon box that I know of

2532
01:48:22,660 --> 01:48:18,890
actually appeared on the David Letterman

2533
01:48:27,550 --> 01:48:22,670
Show many years back and it was located

2534
01:48:31,780 --> 01:48:27,560
at Museum called the Museum of medical

2535
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:31,790
quackery and it was on the Letterman

2536
01:48:38,130 --> 01:48:34,610
Show and thereafter it was transferred

2537
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:38,140
to another city to a museum called the

2538
01:48:44,800 --> 01:48:41,330
Museum of questionable medical practices

2539
01:48:48,060 --> 01:48:44,810
which seemed to me like a step up from

2540
01:48:50,980 --> 01:48:48,070
out like cracker ate it is questionable

2541
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:50,990
almost everything is questionable I mean

2542
01:48:55,980 --> 01:48:53,330
if you look at the terms and conditions

2543
01:48:58,090 --> 01:48:55,990
of every medicine you take especially

2544
01:49:00,640 --> 01:48:58,100
antidepressants or something that deals

2545
01:49:04,030 --> 01:49:00,650
with a complicated problem they say may

2546
01:49:07,540 --> 01:49:04,040
cause suicidal tendencies may cause

2547
01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:07,550
death well you see this happy-go-lucky

2548
01:49:15,120 --> 01:49:10,970
woman saying oh I take this medicine and

2549
01:49:16,990 --> 01:49:15,130
my life is better but it may cause death

2550
01:49:19,000 --> 01:49:17,000
because all bunch of things that they

2551
01:49:20,320 --> 01:49:19,010
say they say really fast or at the end

2552
01:49:26,460 --> 01:49:20,330
of the commercial I think even keep

2553
01:49:28,990 --> 01:49:26,470
track of it can you get this car from

2554
01:49:36,130 --> 01:49:29,000
$99 for the least you have to drive 30

2555
01:49:39,280 --> 01:49:36,140
miles a year I was saying describing was

2556
01:49:42,340 --> 01:49:39,290
an official like book or own box there

2557
01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:42,350
you know people have been building our

2558
01:49:49,990 --> 01:49:44,810
own boxes ever since it's always been a

2559
01:49:51,670 --> 01:49:50,000
very popular thing Riky and/or on

2560
01:49:54,010 --> 01:49:51,680
science is actually still practiced by

2561
01:49:55,810 --> 01:49:54,020
scientists around the world the the

2562
01:49:57,670 --> 01:49:55,820
greatest one of course in America is

2563
01:49:58,900 --> 01:49:57,680
James de Mayo I don't know if you know

2564
01:50:02,350 --> 01:49:58,910
that name but he runs the Oregon

2565
01:50:04,210 --> 01:50:02,360
biophysics lab on Oregon and he's

2566
01:50:08,050 --> 01:50:04,220
written a book on called her Asia and

2567
01:50:12,520 --> 01:50:08,060
he's taken rights concepts as far as

2568
01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:12,530
anybody has has been able to and he also

2569
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:14,210
wrote the Oregon accumulator handbook

2570
01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:17,690
and you can still get that from him how

2571
01:50:20,830 --> 01:50:18,410
to build one

2572
01:50:23,020 --> 01:50:20,840
and what it's all about and of course

2573
01:50:23,570 --> 01:50:23,030
there was I recently was able to turn

2574
01:50:26,210 --> 01:50:23,580
over

2575
01:50:29,750 --> 01:50:26,220
copies of Reich's correspondence with

2576
01:50:32,210 --> 01:50:29,760
Albert Einstein to project in Israel

2577
01:50:34,370 --> 01:50:32,220
whether trying to collect all of

2578
01:50:37,610 --> 01:50:34,380
Einsteins correspondence and their

2579
01:50:41,020 --> 01:50:37,620
publishing one volume a year for every

2580
01:50:43,670 --> 01:50:41,030
year and I like in the 1920s now and

2581
01:50:45,170 --> 01:50:43,680
Reich's encounter with Einstein was in

2582
01:50:46,580 --> 01:50:45,180
the 1940s so it'll be number twenty

2583
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:46,590
years before they take what I've given

2584
01:50:52,700 --> 01:50:50,010
them get it in a published volume but

2585
01:50:54,770 --> 01:50:52,710
ever I could take in the Oregon Box to

2586
01:50:56,750 --> 01:50:54,780
Einstein the nine Stein it blew his mind

2587
01:50:59,900 --> 01:50:56,760
he said wow this is the implications of

2588
01:51:01,790 --> 01:50:59,910
this there are incredible and this

2589
01:51:03,830 --> 01:51:01,800
correspondence went all along for a long

2590
01:51:07,880 --> 01:51:03,840
time until one of mine Stein's

2591
01:51:09,590 --> 01:51:07,890
assistants said Einstein well what's

2592
01:51:11,210 --> 01:51:09,600
really going on here is a convection

2593
01:51:13,580 --> 01:51:11,220
with the ceiling that's why that

2594
01:51:14,900 --> 01:51:13,590
temperature differences is there in the

2595
01:51:16,970 --> 01:51:14,910
box there's a convection with the

2596
01:51:19,460 --> 01:51:16,980
ceiling and Einstein said oh okay all

2597
01:51:21,550 --> 01:51:19,470
that stand to that and Reich said wait

2598
01:51:23,810 --> 01:51:21,560
wait a minute wait a minute I do these

2599
01:51:25,640 --> 01:51:23,820
experiments outdoors

2600
01:51:28,610 --> 01:51:25,650
there is no ceilings you know and I'm

2601
01:51:30,890 --> 01:51:28,620
still getting the same effect but by

2602
01:51:33,290 --> 01:51:30,900
that time he'd lost Einstein's interest

2603
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:33,300
although some of the equipment that he'd

2604
01:51:37,430 --> 01:51:35,370
sent Einstein Einstein held on to for a

2605
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:37,440
long long time I really had to had to

2606
01:51:42,140 --> 01:51:39,810
Dunham to get it back so there's

2607
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:42,150
evidence to suggest that but he looked

2608
01:51:50,900 --> 01:51:47,850
into it further but it is two completely

2609
01:51:52,850 --> 01:51:50,910
different points of view Reich's felt

2610
01:51:57,440 --> 01:51:52,860
that Einstein had emptied the universe

2611
01:51:59,060 --> 01:51:57,450
that he'd that his relativistic

2612
01:52:01,600 --> 01:51:59,070
formulation was basically kind of

2613
01:52:04,160 --> 01:52:01,610
demonstrated a total mechanical universe

2614
01:52:08,300 --> 01:52:04,170
that didn't take into account all the

2615
01:52:11,420 --> 01:52:08,310
many rhythms of energy that that you can

2616
01:52:13,370 --> 01:52:11,430
readily see and that he could measure

2617
01:52:15,350 --> 01:52:13,380
actually and in harness and his

2618
01:52:18,770 --> 01:52:15,360
technologies well what do you think the

2619
01:52:21,100 --> 01:52:18,780
problem was in terms of what why why was

2620
01:52:24,590 --> 01:52:21,110
there invent a vendetta that apparently

2621
01:52:27,560 --> 01:52:24,600
ensued against him and his work and they

2622
01:52:29,930 --> 01:52:27,570
used the you know the the flimsiest of

2623
01:52:31,910 --> 01:52:29,940
charges to get him in jail where he died

2624
01:52:37,239 --> 01:52:31,920
if I'm not mistaken I think he died and

2625
01:52:38,890 --> 01:52:37,249
doesn't correct broken heart

2626
01:52:42,129 --> 01:52:38,900
and then all of his equipment was

2627
01:52:43,569 --> 01:52:42,139
destroyed and his books were burned you

2628
01:52:46,239 --> 01:52:43,579
know and again these were books that

2629
01:52:49,149 --> 01:52:46,249
were written famous books life in a

2630
01:52:51,549 --> 01:52:49,159
psychology of fascism and character

2631
01:52:54,790 --> 01:52:51,559
analysis books that he wrote I became

2632
01:52:56,439 --> 01:52:54,800
famous for years before he'd even come

2633
01:52:58,089 --> 01:52:56,449
up with this idea or ago and I've

2634
01:53:00,459 --> 01:52:58,099
written a word about it and they were

2635
01:53:03,279 --> 01:53:00,469
all labeled as they were all declared as

2636
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:03,289
labels for the Oregon blocks and federal

2637
01:53:07,750 --> 01:53:05,570
agents were sent out to his his lab and

2638
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:07,760
rings me main and and they burn all his

2639
01:53:12,700 --> 01:53:10,010
books and then it's just uh just a

2640
01:53:13,660 --> 01:53:12,710
wretched horrible episode in America's

2641
01:53:15,600 --> 01:53:13,670
history this is like nineteen

2642
01:53:16,899 --> 01:53:15,610
fifty-eight fifty-seven fifty-eight

2643
01:53:18,399 --> 01:53:16,909
eleven

2644
01:53:19,839 --> 01:53:18,409
what was the motivation what was the

2645
01:53:21,850 --> 01:53:19,849
government's motivation to do all this

2646
01:53:25,120 --> 01:53:21,860
do you think well again there was a

2647
01:53:28,000 --> 01:53:25,130
threat to pharmaceutical interest for

2648
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:28,010
one thing because Oregon energy is in

2649
01:53:31,029 --> 01:53:29,449
the atmosphere it's all around us it's

2650
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:31,039
in your body and they're very simple

2651
01:53:36,459 --> 01:53:32,690
techniques to develop it and use it in

2652
01:53:41,290 --> 01:53:36,469
productive ways that you can't like put

2653
01:53:46,839 --> 01:53:41,300
the bottle and sell can but it almost

2654
01:53:51,549 --> 01:53:46,849
sounds like the force and Star Wars yeah

2655
01:53:54,129 --> 01:53:51,559
well sounds like tea in lowest

2656
01:53:57,250 --> 01:53:54,139
philosophy in China it's a the grace of

2657
01:53:58,839 --> 01:53:57,260
God and Christianity it's you know

2658
01:54:02,140 --> 01:53:58,849
there's all these wonderful metaphors

2659
01:54:04,930 --> 01:54:02,150
that every religion kind of has but you

2660
01:54:08,040 --> 01:54:04,940
know again Reich was able to to

2661
01:54:10,569 --> 01:54:08,050
demonstrate its reality actually

2662
01:54:12,549 --> 01:54:10,579
accumulated in various pieces of

2663
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:12,559
equipment right now in fact I have the

2664
01:54:16,989 --> 01:54:14,090
framed photographs I'm looking at home

2665
01:54:19,989 --> 01:54:16,999
with my book cells of blue energy

2666
01:54:22,540 --> 01:54:19,999
filling up a vacuum tubes this is a core

2667
01:54:25,089 --> 01:54:22,550
device that right created this is color

2668
01:54:28,149 --> 01:54:25,099
photographs among many that he published

2669
01:54:31,350 --> 01:54:28,159
in a regular journal you know it's not

2670
01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:31,360
frauds not hoax not a conspiracy it's

2671
01:54:40,509 --> 01:54:38,210
it's it's a real science that is if it's

2672
01:54:42,850 --> 01:54:40,519
again it still studied in practice

2673
01:54:45,489 --> 01:54:42,860
around the world it's certainly in a

2674
01:54:50,590 --> 01:54:45,499
much smaller way than a regular medical

2675
01:54:53,650 --> 01:54:50,600
science but it's still out there and it

2676
01:54:55,600 --> 01:54:53,660
it's not in the ascendancy because the

2677
01:54:58,450 --> 01:54:55,610
kind of a point of view that developed

2678
01:55:01,710 --> 01:54:58,460
that was different to it it's a point of

2679
01:55:05,920 --> 01:55:01,720
view of just pure mechanistic science

2680
01:55:07,570 --> 01:55:05,930
that you know the gives us despite the

2681
01:55:10,180 --> 01:55:07,580
tremendous potential of all the energy

2682
01:55:13,320 --> 01:55:10,190
that we discovered inside the atom it

2683
01:55:18,340 --> 01:55:13,330
gives us tremendous destruction and

2684
01:55:21,820 --> 01:55:18,350
Reich's attempt was to try to see they

2685
01:55:24,220 --> 01:55:21,830
try to use atomic energy you know for

2686
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good and productive purposes but of

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course you can't get anywhere using

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anything for productive purposes in this

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society sometimes Kenneth Thomas joining

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us I'm Jean Steinberg the co-host is

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[Music]

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see economic growth slide into a

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recession or at worst depression hi Ted

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becomes volatile US Treasuries are

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US government overextends itself and

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spends beyond its means many investors

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silver but ask yourself are you truly

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comment or question about the pair cast

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send it to news at the podcast com

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that's news at the parrot cast calm and

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don't forget to visit our famous pair of

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Lapera cast com get in on all the action

2792
02:00:24,049 --> 02:00:22,370
one of the more unusual episodes of the

2793
02:00:26,120 --> 02:00:24,059
para cast not because of the content

2794
02:00:28,689 --> 02:00:26,130
from Kenneth Thomas has been on the show

2795
02:00:31,669 --> 02:00:28,699
before but because of the strange

2796
02:00:34,449 --> 02:00:31,679
broadband responses I've been getting

2797
02:00:37,069 --> 02:00:34,459
here so we're gonna continue Chris

2798
02:00:41,299 --> 02:00:37,079
O'Brien's and co-host I'm Jean Steinberg

2799
02:00:44,419 --> 02:00:41,309
and we're discussing free energy what is

2800
02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:44,429
it so Oregon energy can cure you of what

2801
02:00:49,459 --> 02:00:47,610
ails you well you know that was the

2802
02:00:51,890 --> 02:00:49,469
exaggerated view that was put forth by

2803
02:00:53,500 --> 02:00:51,900
the BSD a that Reich was saying get in

2804
02:00:56,989 --> 02:00:53,510
this box and you will be cured of cancer

2805
02:00:58,879 --> 02:00:56,999
but that's not yet at all Reich did

2806
02:01:00,439 --> 02:00:58,889
write a book called a cancer biopsy and

2807
02:01:03,259 --> 02:01:00,449
what she said that cancer was the

2808
02:01:05,419 --> 02:01:03,269
product of a kind of a lifestyle and

2809
02:01:07,310 --> 02:01:05,429
exposure to things and and he did his

2810
02:01:10,100 --> 02:01:07,320
Oregon box was used in his therapeutic

2811
02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:10,110
practice but he never made the kind of

2812
02:01:14,350 --> 02:01:12,570
claim that they they said that he did

2813
02:01:17,629 --> 02:01:14,360
and of course he was prosecuted

2814
02:01:19,429 --> 02:01:17,639
basically because his grounds keeper had

2815
02:01:21,560 --> 02:01:19,439
shipped one of the Oregon boxes across

2816
02:01:24,199 --> 02:01:21,570
state lines a technical violation you

2817
02:01:26,479 --> 02:01:24,209
were saying yes injunction yeah so it

2818
02:01:29,060 --> 02:01:26,489
was all kind of technical really like

2819
02:01:32,149 --> 02:01:29,070
they were looking to entrap him yeah

2820
02:01:33,739 --> 02:01:32,159
excuse any excuse right yeah I mean he

2821
02:01:36,379 --> 02:01:33,749
didn't harmony and at the same time

2822
02:01:39,469 --> 02:01:36,389
there was a campaign in the press that

2823
02:01:41,959 --> 02:01:39,479
was carried out against him by by

2824
02:01:43,609 --> 02:01:41,969
foreign agents for the most part right

2825
02:01:44,629 --> 02:01:43,619
yeah it looked on the international

2826
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:44,639
scene and he came up with his own

2827
02:01:50,509 --> 02:01:47,610
color-coded idea of politics he was he

2828
02:01:52,339 --> 02:01:50,519
labeled red fascism and black fascism

2829
02:01:53,449 --> 02:01:52,349
read fashion was the citizen was the

2830
02:01:55,879 --> 02:01:53,459
kind that was being practiced by the

2831
02:01:58,129 --> 02:01:55,889
communist and black fascism as what he

2832
02:01:59,379 --> 02:01:58,139
was facing here in the United States and

2833
02:02:01,580 --> 02:01:59,389
of course climbing has had in fact

2834
02:02:03,620 --> 02:02:01,590
infiltrated the leftist press at the

2835
02:02:05,419 --> 02:02:03,630
time and there was a woman named Mildred

2836
02:02:06,169 --> 02:02:05,429
Edie Brady who's kind of famous for

2837
02:02:08,090 --> 02:02:06,179
founding

2838
02:02:10,820 --> 02:02:08,100
they're helping to find consumer reports

2839
02:02:13,880 --> 02:02:10,830
working for consumer review boards yeah

2840
02:02:15,979 --> 02:02:13,890
and so now we have a connection Wilhelm

2841
02:02:17,840 --> 02:02:15,989
Reich in Consumer Reports oh that's

2842
02:02:19,970 --> 02:02:17,850
right yeah Mildred Edie Brady is a name

2843
02:02:22,280 --> 02:02:19,980
and she wrote these articles that just

2844
02:02:24,439 --> 02:02:22,290
totally attacked him and then there was

2845
02:02:27,080 --> 02:02:24,449
all this other press against him that

2846
02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:27,090
were kind of based on her articles more

2847
02:02:32,149 --> 02:02:29,730
than any direct exposure to him and

2848
02:02:34,430 --> 02:02:32,159
another interesting footnote is the

2849
02:02:37,700 --> 02:02:34,440
first person in the leftist press in

2850
02:02:41,180 --> 02:02:37,710
this country who wrote a critical thing

2851
02:02:43,040 --> 02:02:41,190
about Reich was a guy named Frederick

2852
02:02:45,290 --> 02:02:43,050
wertham who wrote a review of the mass

2853
02:02:47,180 --> 02:02:45,300
psychology of fascism was actually the

2854
02:02:50,330 --> 02:02:47,190
first real book that was you know

2855
02:02:52,610 --> 02:02:50,340
intelligently critical of the fascist

2856
02:02:55,040 --> 02:02:52,620
states that arose that we fought against

2857
02:02:57,439 --> 02:02:55,050
of world war ii this guy wertham wrote a

2858
02:02:58,790 --> 02:02:57,449
bad review about it this is before the

2859
02:03:00,830 --> 02:02:58,800
other attacks that appeared in the New

2860
02:03:03,620 --> 02:03:00,840
Republic with Miller DD Brady and war

2861
02:03:04,910 --> 02:03:03,630
some later became famous for writing a

2862
02:03:06,860 --> 02:03:04,920
book called the seduction of the

2863
02:03:09,110 --> 02:03:06,870
innocent which created this whole

2864
02:03:12,140 --> 02:03:09,120
hysterical backlash against comic books

2865
02:03:14,270 --> 02:03:12,150
in the 50s so the great doctor who

2866
02:03:15,890 --> 02:03:14,280
convinced everybody the comic books were

2867
02:03:18,080 --> 02:03:15,900
corrupting youth and creating juvenile

2868
02:03:20,030 --> 02:03:18,090
delinquency it led to a total

2869
02:03:22,070 --> 02:03:20,040
transformation of that industry from

2870
02:03:23,959 --> 02:03:22,080
they were publishing horror comics and

2871
02:03:25,850 --> 02:03:23,969
things at the time and then a comics

2872
02:03:28,430 --> 02:03:25,860
code Authority a censorship Authority

2873
02:03:30,620 --> 02:03:28,440
was created that sanitized and censored

2874
02:03:33,970 --> 02:03:30,630
them out and do you see these types of

2875
02:03:37,250 --> 02:03:33,980
trends continuing in in this culture

2876
02:03:40,910 --> 02:03:37,260
transport censorship well just kind of a

2877
02:03:43,100 --> 02:03:40,920
dumbing down of America and and more and

2878
02:03:45,200 --> 02:03:43,110
more stringent controls over over over

2879
02:03:47,120 --> 02:03:45,210
the press and over a freedom of speech

2880
02:03:50,180 --> 02:03:47,130
and I mean this kind of a softball

2881
02:03:52,490 --> 02:03:50,190
question for you but I see well I see

2882
02:03:54,200 --> 02:03:52,500
all this stuff really ramping up

2883
02:03:56,390 --> 02:03:54,210
well it's amazing to me how it all

2884
02:03:58,610 --> 02:03:56,400
happens in a de-facto way I mean

2885
02:03:59,930 --> 02:03:58,620
supposedly we live in the time of the of

2886
02:04:03,020 --> 02:03:59,940
the internet when it's not breaking down

2887
02:04:05,479 --> 02:04:03,030
where everybody is a global publisher

2888
02:04:07,399 --> 02:04:05,489
you know and potentially can reach the

2889
02:04:11,649 --> 02:04:07,409
entire world and so you would think you

2890
02:04:14,300 --> 02:04:11,659
would have more free speech and the more

2891
02:04:15,380 --> 02:04:14,310
research more understanding and more

2892
02:04:18,110 --> 02:04:15,390
intelligence going on

2893
02:04:19,100 --> 02:04:18,120
but my view is that it seems to me that

2894
02:04:21,260 --> 02:04:19,110
the internet has become so

2895
02:04:22,520 --> 02:04:21,270
commercialized I mean originally you

2896
02:04:25,010 --> 02:04:22,530
used to be able to get up there and you

2897
02:04:26,420 --> 02:04:25,020
could actually find research now you

2898
02:04:27,800 --> 02:04:26,430
look at something on Google and they'll

2899
02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:27,810
send you to a page where maybe either

2900
02:04:33,620 --> 02:04:30,810
buy a book that might have research but

2901
02:04:36,080 --> 02:04:33,630
the whole thing is is buy buy buy

2902
02:04:38,900 --> 02:04:36,090
something or alternately if you are a

2903
02:04:41,030 --> 02:04:38,910
writer with something to say how do you

2904
02:04:43,070 --> 02:04:41,040
survive on the internet because they

2905
02:04:45,230 --> 02:04:43,080
know how to take it take your time and

2906
02:04:46,790 --> 02:04:45,240
put it up there and there are a few ways

2907
02:04:48,770 --> 02:04:46,800
that you can earn a living doing that

2908
02:04:50,300 --> 02:04:48,780
because so much is posted on the

2909
02:04:55,940 --> 02:04:50,310
internet for free so these these your

2910
02:05:00,410 --> 02:04:55,950
ways of keeping people from you know

2911
02:05:03,500 --> 02:05:00,420
saying anything against conformity or if

2912
02:05:06,380 --> 02:05:03,510
we see fascism in our government or you

2913
02:05:08,360 --> 02:05:06,390
know all these Gillett arias things you

2914
02:05:10,730 --> 02:05:08,370
know it's not it's not necessarily

2915
02:05:13,490 --> 02:05:10,740
outright censorship American said about

2916
02:05:16,280 --> 02:05:13,500
many times that you know why have a

2917
02:05:18,290 --> 02:05:16,290
revolution when you don't really need

2918
02:05:21,170 --> 02:05:18,300
what I visible called friendly fascism

2919
02:05:23,480 --> 02:05:21,180
you know people like it this way you

2920
02:05:28,460 --> 02:05:23,490
know even the bad part and that's why it

2921
02:05:29,990 --> 02:05:28,470
never changes Liss yeah well we

2922
02:05:32,600 --> 02:05:30,000
definitely see a dumbing down I think of

2923
02:05:35,270 --> 02:05:32,610
the younger generations I was by doing

2924
02:05:37,820 --> 02:05:35,280
some some maintenance work on some

2925
02:05:39,500 --> 02:05:37,830
properties in the town next to me

2926
02:05:41,960 --> 02:05:39,510
I asked the kid he was he was in his

2927
02:05:44,450 --> 02:05:41,970
early 20s I asked him to write down some

2928
02:05:46,940 --> 02:05:44,460
measurements for me and I gave a measure

2929
02:05:49,760 --> 02:05:46,950
of 14 and 3/4 and he said how do you

2930
02:05:52,190 --> 02:05:49,770
write 3/4 what is that and and I was

2931
02:05:54,440 --> 02:05:52,200
dumbfounded n't believe it

2932
02:05:56,360 --> 02:05:54,450
I said are you joking he goes no really

2933
02:05:58,580 --> 02:05:56,370
how do you write it and I said well you

2934
02:06:00,890 --> 02:05:58,590
write a three with a slash and then a

2935
02:06:02,780 --> 02:06:00,900
four do you know what that means he goes

2936
02:06:08,030 --> 02:06:02,790
no it's like he doesn't even know what a

2937
02:06:09,530 --> 02:06:08,040
fraction is let alone know how to of

2938
02:06:11,810 --> 02:06:09,540
course but where did he receive his

2939
02:06:14,660 --> 02:06:11,820
education he graduated from high and

2940
02:06:15,320 --> 02:06:14,670
local high school there oh that is a

2941
02:06:21,020 --> 02:06:15,330
problem

2942
02:06:22,640 --> 02:06:21,030
you think that's another one can that I

2943
02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:22,650
know you know a little bit about is the

2944
02:06:26,280 --> 02:06:24,810
controversy surrounding the suppression

2945
02:06:28,590 --> 02:06:26,290
of free energy devices

2946
02:06:31,440 --> 02:06:28,600
this dovetails are the right module

2947
02:06:34,440 --> 02:06:31,450
DuckTales nicely into the whole subject

2948
02:06:38,610 --> 02:06:34,450
of a free energy and how the oil

2949
02:06:40,470 --> 02:06:38,620
companies need to go ahead well that's

2950
02:06:42,720 --> 02:06:40,480
the great implication of the order unbox

2951
02:06:43,950 --> 02:06:42,730
if the interior of the oregon fosters a

2952
02:06:45,660 --> 02:06:43,960
couple of temperatures higher than

2953
02:06:47,100 --> 02:06:45,670
ambient temperature of the room and says

2954
02:06:48,360 --> 02:06:47,110
let's heat it's a tremendous source of

2955
02:06:51,270 --> 02:06:48,370
energy if you did that on a mass scale

2956
02:06:53,670 --> 02:06:51,280
you would you would have free energy and

2957
02:06:55,710 --> 02:06:53,680
that's of course is a threat to the oil

2958
02:06:57,120 --> 02:06:55,720
companies just as solar energy which is

2959
02:06:59,850 --> 02:06:57,130
ridiculous is a threat to the oil

2960
02:07:01,950 --> 02:06:59,860
companies I have I have news clippings

2961
02:07:03,720 --> 02:07:01,960
here of hydrogen fuel cells being

2962
02:07:05,360 --> 02:07:03,730
developed in the late 1940s and they're

2963
02:07:08,190 --> 02:07:05,370
saying well next year we will have this

2964
02:07:10,320 --> 02:07:08,200
1940s you know and certainly they just

2965
02:07:12,300 --> 02:07:10,330
didn't get stupid in the following years

2966
02:07:15,240 --> 02:07:12,310
they just got suppressed because there's

2967
02:07:17,700 --> 02:07:15,250
a great deal of profit in moving things

2968
02:07:19,650 --> 02:07:17,710
along the way they are now yeah wring

2969
02:07:21,470 --> 02:07:19,660
our pockets drive for every every dime

2970
02:07:25,260 --> 02:07:21,480
and nickel they can get out of us before

2971
02:07:28,110 --> 02:07:25,270
before the oil equation kind of drops

2972
02:07:30,500 --> 02:07:28,120
off the map you got to hope that one of

2973
02:07:32,790 --> 02:07:30,510
these days once the oil finally dries up

2974
02:07:35,730 --> 02:07:32,800
we will turn our attentions to the

2975
02:07:37,770 --> 02:07:35,740
alternative energy if there's any earth

2976
02:07:40,380 --> 02:07:37,780
left well you know what's gonna happen

2977
02:07:43,830 --> 02:07:40,390
oh the power companies will look for a

2978
02:07:46,140 --> 02:07:43,840
way to exploit free energy it can't be

2979
02:07:48,390 --> 02:07:46,150
free they'll take care of that well you

2980
02:07:50,610 --> 02:07:48,400
know I think that that's uh it's very

2981
02:07:54,350 --> 02:07:50,620
possible I mean even solar energy you

2982
02:07:56,370 --> 02:07:54,360
need to create photovoltaic cells to

2983
02:07:59,820 --> 02:07:56,380
harness it you know and those could be

2984
02:08:02,850 --> 02:07:59,830
sessile centrally produced and marketed

2985
02:08:04,110 --> 02:08:02,860
under the the old rules of capitalism I

2986
02:08:08,160 --> 02:08:04,120
mean there's a way to do it you just

2987
02:08:14,330 --> 02:08:08,170
don't make as much money as you do you

2988
02:08:17,130 --> 02:08:14,340
know pumping oil four bucks a gallon

2989
02:08:19,410 --> 02:08:17,140
they can find a way to exploit it if

2990
02:08:21,000 --> 02:08:19,420
they can find a way to market it if they

2991
02:08:23,850 --> 02:08:21,010
can find a way to sell it

2992
02:08:27,170 --> 02:08:23,860
they will then will allow it to market

2993
02:08:30,420 --> 02:08:27,180
under their control it's all about them

2994
02:08:33,330 --> 02:08:30,430
we have Kenneth Thomas we're talking

2995
02:08:35,190 --> 02:08:33,340
about Peres politics Oregon energy and

2996
02:08:37,880 --> 02:08:35,200
lots more Chris O'Brien's the co-host

2997
02:08:46,520 --> 02:08:37,890
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the pear

2998
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cast graphic converter is the image

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manipulation tool for the rest of us it

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does not use any database you get full

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control of all your files want to view

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graphic converter and a powerful browser

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opens up to show your image files you

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could use it for slideshows you could

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use it to import images from digital

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cameras or from scanners need to do some

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image editing you can do that too in

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graphic converter also print catalogs

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like one and a half million other users

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guess what you could save money when you

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buy graphic converter use the coupon

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code night owl use the coupon code night

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converter go to Lemke soft calm that's

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soft calm you've heard a lot lately

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about zeolite but what is it and why do

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you need it zeolite is a beautiful

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encapsulates radiation and odors Zeo

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cell phones and chemicals so it

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detoxifies heavy metals including

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mercury lead and cadmium Zeo King

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zeolite helps boost your immune system

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to your exact individual needs by gently

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supporting your head

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and neck my pillow has a natural

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built-in cooling effect keeping your

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cervical nerves cool giving you the best

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sleep of your life my pillow will never

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go flat and relieve snoring migraines

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comfortable pillow you will ever own

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guaranteed how would you like to rev up

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your metabolism and energy while lifting

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developed for a former welterweight

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boxing champion to increase his energy

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and focus in the ring zoom tea is an

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alternative healthy pick-me-up that can

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replace coffee common tea or soda zoom

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tea also helps remove radiation from the

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body promotes weight loss and is high in

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drinking zoom tea go to zoom t-dot-com

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eight seven seven three four one four

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seven six nine eight seven seven three

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four one four seven six nine today are

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you tired of searching for great talk

3100
02:12:57,859 --> 02:12:45,800
radio more important search through

3101
02:13:02,480 --> 02:13:00,569
hi my name is Richard Dolan you're

3102
02:13:05,640 --> 02:13:02,490
listening to the Peres Cass

3103
02:13:08,830 --> 02:13:05,650
[Music]

3104
02:13:11,160 --> 02:13:08,840
two more segments with Kenneth F Thomas

3105
02:13:14,370 --> 02:13:11,170
returning after several years absence

3106
02:13:16,839 --> 02:13:14,380
covering all sorts of developments in

3107
02:13:20,049 --> 02:13:16,849
Para politics Chris O'Brien's the

3108
02:13:23,709 --> 02:13:20,059
co-host on gene Steinberg now we can

3109
02:13:27,729 --> 02:13:23,719
explore work on energy forever but today

3110
02:13:30,609 --> 02:13:27,739
in the 21st century years after Reich

3111
02:13:31,330 --> 02:13:30,619
died is there any new stuff still being

3112
02:13:34,779 --> 02:13:31,340
discovered

3113
02:13:36,549 --> 02:13:34,789
well again although energy is natural

3114
02:13:38,319 --> 02:13:36,559
energy so that anytime you walk to work

3115
02:13:41,229 --> 02:13:38,329
instead of staying in the car

3116
02:13:43,810 --> 02:13:41,239
you're using your life energy you're

3117
02:13:45,189 --> 02:13:43,820
using or go so and it's a bhikkhu they

3118
02:13:47,890 --> 02:13:45,199
said it's always there and it's you know

3119
02:13:50,649 --> 02:13:47,900
it isn't every time you have an orgasm

3120
02:13:52,359 --> 02:13:50,659
that - yes in fact I was one of the

3121
02:13:53,859 --> 02:13:52,369
things that the accused raikou was

3122
02:14:00,879 --> 02:13:53,869
sending people into these boxes so they

3123
02:14:03,339 --> 02:14:00,889
could go masturbate but now they just

3124
02:14:04,779 --> 02:14:03,349
have that in on the internet go into

3125
02:14:08,739 --> 02:14:04,789
this box and you have the greatest

3126
02:14:13,410 --> 02:14:08,749
experiences ever it's so totally

3127
02:14:15,669 --> 02:14:13,420
different now yeah I know

3128
02:14:17,500 --> 02:14:15,679
orgasm in a box I bet you could market

3129
02:14:19,959 --> 02:14:17,510
that pretty pretty effectively I'm

3130
02:14:24,520 --> 02:14:19,969
telling you right now somebody out there

3131
02:14:30,100 --> 02:14:24,530
is going to register the name orgasm in

3132
02:14:33,339 --> 02:14:30,110
a box calm already thinking right was

3133
02:14:35,890 --> 02:14:33,349
our friend reminded people were doing it

3134
02:14:38,680 --> 02:14:35,900
in half-assed ways not understanding of

3135
02:14:40,120 --> 02:14:38,690
what he was trying to do or even any of

3136
02:14:42,580 --> 02:14:40,130
the concepts it just seems kind of

3137
02:14:45,000 --> 02:14:42,590
radical and it involves oral orgasms and

3138
02:14:47,259 --> 02:14:45,010
there all kinds of people that have a

3139
02:14:50,439 --> 02:14:47,269
marketed and sold things that aren't

3140
02:14:52,180 --> 02:14:50,449
really real again if anybody really

3141
02:14:54,100 --> 02:14:52,190
seriously wants to study Oregon it's

3142
02:14:57,640 --> 02:14:54,110
hard to get Reich's books they're not in

3143
02:15:01,899 --> 02:14:57,650
in printing much anymore but Jim de Mayo

3144
02:15:03,250 --> 02:15:01,909
de m e au of the Oregon biophysics lab

3145
02:15:05,199 --> 02:15:03,260
he's out there I don't know what his

3146
02:15:08,770 --> 02:15:05,209
website is but that's enough information

3147
02:15:11,439 --> 02:15:08,780
that you can find him and that's really

3148
02:15:13,540 --> 02:15:11,449
all about you could see now Oregon boxes

3149
02:15:15,600 --> 02:15:13,550
for every Senior Center now we never

3150
02:15:16,979 --> 02:15:15,610
really pursue this in more detail the

3151
02:15:20,910 --> 02:15:16,989
UFO connect

3152
02:15:24,359 --> 02:15:20,920
basically using this Oregon based weapon

3153
02:15:25,739 --> 02:15:24,369
or gun to make UFOs wink out is there

3154
02:15:27,770 --> 02:15:25,749
any other UFO connection

3155
02:15:32,759 --> 02:15:27,780
well actually we could students back to

3156
02:15:37,680 --> 02:15:32,769
the mooring Island case and in yeah

3157
02:15:39,989 --> 02:15:37,690
because garrison felt that Chrisman was

3158
02:15:44,759 --> 02:15:39,999
in the employ of the military-industrial

3159
02:15:47,600 --> 02:15:44,769
complex as Eisenhower had defined it in

3160
02:15:50,250 --> 02:15:47,610
the late fifties he believes that that

3161
02:15:52,680 --> 02:15:50,260
Chrisman shot Kennedy from the grassy

3162
02:15:56,339 --> 02:15:52,690
knoll at the behest and under the employ

3163
02:16:00,149 --> 02:15:56,349
of Boeing's the aerospace manufacturer

3164
02:16:02,489 --> 02:16:00,159
because Kennedy had given a contract

3165
02:16:04,560 --> 02:16:02,499
that was expected to go to Boeing he

3166
02:16:07,830 --> 02:16:04,570
gave it to General Dynamics instead and

3167
02:16:09,509 --> 02:16:07,840
this was a heck of a revenge killing or

3168
02:16:11,759 --> 02:16:09,519
you know just something to demonstrate

3169
02:16:14,700 --> 02:16:11,769
to the world that you don't go messin

3170
02:16:17,729 --> 02:16:14,710
with these big defense contractors you

3171
02:16:20,250 --> 02:16:17,739
don't get these guys mad at you or they

3172
02:16:21,950 --> 02:16:20,260
will fight back in naval kill you like

3173
02:16:24,359 --> 02:16:21,960
the song you don't mess around with Jim

3174
02:16:26,399 --> 02:16:24,369
yes you don't mess around with the

3175
02:16:28,169 --> 02:16:26,409
military-industrial complex and the

3176
02:16:30,899 --> 02:16:28,179
Contras that we're talking about the

3177
02:16:33,000 --> 02:16:30,909
last speech that JFK ever gave was about

3178
02:16:37,320 --> 02:16:33,010
this it was about the tsx Tactical

3179
02:16:41,160 --> 02:16:37,330
Fighter and which eventually became the

3180
02:16:45,959 --> 02:16:41,170
f-111 and in a contract like that is

3181
02:16:48,269 --> 02:16:45,969
it's not just building whatever the

3182
02:16:50,219 --> 02:16:48,279
craft is but it's creating the funding

3183
02:16:51,959 --> 02:16:50,229
source and the bureaucracy to make sure

3184
02:16:54,959 --> 02:16:51,969
that the whole production effort

3185
02:16:57,750 --> 02:16:54,969
continues through time and that funding

3186
02:17:01,410 --> 02:16:57,760
corridor eventually became the f-111

3187
02:17:03,419 --> 02:17:01,420
which was sold to australia and that

3188
02:17:06,179 --> 02:17:03,429
funding corridor was also responsible

3189
02:17:08,700 --> 02:17:06,189
for the development of Pine Gap which is

3190
02:17:10,740 --> 02:17:08,710
Australians in Alice Springs it was

3191
02:17:14,339 --> 02:17:10,750
Australia's area 51

3192
02:17:16,349 --> 02:17:14,349
so the whole thing really you know you

3193
02:17:18,089 --> 02:17:16,359
talk to people who think that JFK was

3194
02:17:22,139 --> 02:17:18,099
shot because he was going to talk about

3195
02:17:24,750 --> 02:17:22,149
the aliens and Roswell no but here you

3196
02:17:26,790 --> 02:17:24,760
got a guy Krishnan who's involved in

3197
02:17:29,280 --> 02:17:26,800
aliens and UFO stuff going back to the

3198
02:17:32,280 --> 02:17:29,290
40s helping

3199
02:17:35,129 --> 02:17:32,290
to create the culture that gives us

3200
02:17:36,629 --> 02:17:35,139
these science fiction nightmares that we

3201
02:17:40,680 --> 02:17:36,639
have to live with all the time like area

3202
02:17:44,010 --> 02:17:40,690
51 and in Pine Gap in a global culture

3203
02:17:46,260 --> 02:17:44,020
that is constantly a war and constantly

3204
02:17:48,089 --> 02:17:46,270
dominated by military the military

3205
02:17:49,980 --> 02:17:48,099
industrial complex if that's what

3206
02:17:52,830 --> 02:17:49,990
Eisenhower warned about when he finally

3207
02:17:54,470 --> 02:17:52,840
said I'm out of here I'm retiring

3208
02:17:56,970 --> 02:17:54,480
beware the military-industrial complex

3209
02:17:59,040 --> 02:17:56,980
and that's precisely what garrison was

3210
02:18:02,250 --> 02:17:59,050
trying to prosecute yeah that's the

3211
02:18:02,730 --> 02:18:02,260
that's the lesson of the JFK and UFO

3212
02:18:04,770 --> 02:18:02,740
book

3213
02:18:07,379 --> 02:18:04,780
so basically Kennedy was trying to fight

3214
02:18:11,640 --> 02:18:07,389
this - and then of course Johnson comes

3215
02:18:14,459 --> 02:18:11,650
in and we create this fake incident and

3216
02:18:17,180 --> 02:18:14,469
go to war in Vietnam Gulf of Tonkin

3217
02:18:20,690 --> 02:18:17,190
right well and that's the whole other

3218
02:18:26,100 --> 02:18:20,700
aspect of the Kennedy assassination that

3219
02:18:28,320 --> 02:18:26,110
the JFK scholars will connect with on

3220
02:18:31,530 --> 02:18:28,330
this and that is that Kennedy was did

3221
02:18:33,930 --> 02:18:31,540
have an executive order that was drawing

3222
02:18:35,520 --> 02:18:33,940
down the number of troops in Vietnam he

3223
02:18:39,629 --> 02:18:35,530
was beginning to pull us out of Vietnam

3224
02:18:41,790 --> 02:18:39,639
and the first thing that Johnson did

3225
02:18:44,580 --> 02:18:41,800
when he became president was sign an

3226
02:18:46,730 --> 02:18:44,590
order that reversed that increased their

3227
02:18:53,520 --> 02:18:46,740
troop strength there and then created

3228
02:18:55,140 --> 02:18:53,530
Vietnam or the military contractor now

3229
02:18:56,790 --> 02:18:55,150
can we take the same conspiracy about

3230
02:18:59,549 --> 02:18:56,800
military-industrial complex

3231
02:19:02,459 --> 02:18:59,559
and bring it to the present day the wars

3232
02:19:04,950 --> 02:19:02,469
in Iraq Afghanistan we didn't need that

3233
02:19:09,540 --> 02:19:04,960
I mean wasn't it also true that the

3234
02:19:12,060 --> 02:19:09,550
Taliban offered been Laden to us before

3235
02:19:15,360 --> 02:19:12,070
we went to war in Afghanistan is it

3236
02:19:17,129 --> 02:19:15,370
proved that he did it he's yours yeah

3237
02:19:21,030 --> 02:19:17,139
well you do hear that and of course you

3238
02:19:22,950 --> 02:19:21,040
know they were the al-qaeda was

3239
02:19:26,100 --> 02:19:22,960
originally the Mujahideen funded by the

3240
02:19:27,240 --> 02:19:26,110
CIA to help fight the Soviet enemy okay

3241
02:19:29,850 --> 02:19:27,250
you know what here's the other

3242
02:19:33,510 --> 02:19:29,860
connection in the movies that James Bond

3243
02:19:35,970 --> 02:19:33,520
film the Mujahideen were in that film

3244
02:19:39,690 --> 02:19:35,980
you had this actor named arc Malik who

3245
02:19:42,070 --> 02:19:39,700
plays this harvard-educated member of

3246
02:19:45,339 --> 02:19:42,080
this group in Afghanistan

3247
02:19:46,839 --> 02:19:45,349
the same actor then appears in a film

3248
02:19:50,290 --> 02:19:46,849
called True Lies with Arnold

3249
02:19:53,290 --> 02:19:50,300
Schwarzenegger as a terrorist and his

3250
02:19:54,790 --> 02:19:53,300
right the meme was in the plot in the

3251
02:19:58,090 --> 02:19:54,800
movie this is the one directed by James

3252
02:20:00,040 --> 02:19:58,100
Cameron he said you killed our women and

3253
02:20:02,679 --> 02:20:00,050
our children you call us terrorists

3254
02:20:05,320 --> 02:20:02,689
because we abandoned these people like

3255
02:20:07,570 --> 02:20:05,330
bin Laden of course also and they came

3256
02:20:10,599 --> 02:20:07,580
back to haunt us also the movie the

3257
02:20:13,360 --> 02:20:10,609
siege where you have this Arab cell

3258
02:20:15,099 --> 02:20:13,370
staging terrorists actions in New York

3259
02:20:18,429 --> 02:20:15,109
and it's the same thing

3260
02:20:22,380 --> 02:20:18,439
the CIA abandoned them ok we're coming

3261
02:20:28,090 --> 02:20:25,389
yeah yeah that's not a typical you know

3262
02:20:32,710 --> 02:20:28,100
we in the iran-iraq war we funded both

3263
02:20:34,719 --> 02:20:32,720
sides and sold weapons to both sides you

3264
02:20:36,730 --> 02:20:34,729
know the CIA's always the intelligence

3265
02:20:40,929 --> 02:20:36,740
world was always trying to play both

3266
02:20:42,969 --> 02:20:40,939
ends against the middle against whatever

3267
02:20:45,250 --> 02:20:42,979
would further their cause but I'd

3268
02:20:48,490 --> 02:20:45,260
caution against really trying to see

3269
02:20:50,410 --> 02:20:48,500
al-qaeda as an oppressed minority

3270
02:20:52,599 --> 02:20:50,420
fighting back I mean I really do believe

3271
02:20:54,460 --> 02:20:52,609
that diamond was trying to re-establish

3272
02:20:56,889 --> 02:20:54,470
the caliphate and that his attitudes

3273
02:20:58,900 --> 02:20:56,899
were medievalist and he's basically

3274
02:21:01,540 --> 02:20:58,910
needles on one of the one of the

3275
02:21:03,730 --> 02:21:01,550
differences between 9/11 conspiracy

3276
02:21:06,840 --> 02:21:03,740
theories and JFK conspiracy theories is

3277
02:21:10,270 --> 02:21:06,850
that there is no non conspiracy theory

3278
02:21:11,830 --> 02:21:10,280
having to deal with 9/11 with JFK you

3279
02:21:15,910 --> 02:21:11,840
can believe in a conspiracy or you can

3280
02:21:20,500 --> 02:21:15,920
believe in the lone nut' but with with

3281
02:21:22,059 --> 02:21:20,510
9/11 it's either 19 jihadist and you

3282
02:21:23,679 --> 02:21:22,069
know there are al-qaeda leaders in the

3283
02:21:25,660 --> 02:21:23,689
some of them laden conspiring to do what

3284
02:21:27,400 --> 02:21:25,670
they did or it's George Bush and Dick

3285
02:21:29,260 --> 02:21:27,410
Cheney and his buddies conspiring it's

3286
02:21:31,030 --> 02:21:29,270
one conspiracy or another well there's

3287
02:21:32,770 --> 02:21:31,040
the middle conspiracy which is they knew

3288
02:21:36,790 --> 02:21:32,780
it was going to happen they just didn't

3289
02:21:39,040 --> 02:21:36,800
stop it well there's my view that it

3290
02:21:41,230 --> 02:21:39,050
started to happen they saw it happening

3291
02:21:46,380 --> 02:21:41,240
and they said hey we can work with this

3292
02:21:52,000 --> 02:21:46,390
in the order to stand down all right

3293
02:21:54,790 --> 02:21:52,010
yeah yeah but you know there's there's

3294
02:21:55,841 --> 02:21:54,800
always a propensity to just see the

3295
02:21:57,940 --> 02:21:55,851
United States

3296
02:21:59,350 --> 02:21:57,950
being the big evil entity in the world

3297
02:22:02,020 --> 02:21:59,360
and that you know whatever is happening

3298
02:22:04,631 --> 02:22:02,030
it's it's the United States own fault I

3299
02:22:07,270 --> 02:22:04,641
don't really think that that if it's

3300
02:22:09,461 --> 02:22:07,280
happening in 911 but the other issue of

3301
02:22:11,860 --> 02:22:09,471
course about all these things can is

3302
02:22:14,770 --> 02:22:11,870
that governments tend to be reactive

3303
02:22:16,871 --> 02:22:14,780
rather than proactive they don't stem a

3304
02:22:19,060 --> 02:22:16,881
crisis before it happens they wait until

3305
02:22:20,591 --> 02:22:19,070
it happens and they run scrambling

3306
02:22:22,091 --> 02:22:20,601
trying to figure out how to get

3307
02:22:24,900 --> 02:22:22,101
themselves out of it like what would

3308
02:22:26,711 --> 02:22:24,910
happen if UFOs landed tomorrow and

3309
02:22:28,781 --> 02:22:26,721
Michael Rennie comes out of the

3310
02:22:31,301 --> 02:22:28,791
spaceship with his silvery uniform and

3311
02:22:33,281 --> 02:22:31,311
says we're here to help you rather than

3312
02:22:35,711 --> 02:22:33,291
to harm you or whatever Kenneth Thomas

3313
02:22:38,230 --> 02:22:35,721
joining us I'm Jean Steinberg the

3314
02:22:46,211 --> 02:22:38,240
co-host is Chris O'Brien you're in the

3315
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para cast so here's what happened I was

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placed the order with another company if

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[Music]

3425
02:27:08,991 --> 02:27:06,981
we have Kenneth Thomas for one more

3426
02:27:11,901 --> 02:27:09,001
segment on the power cast if our

3427
02:27:13,911 --> 02:27:11,911
broadband connection holds out Chris

3428
02:27:17,421 --> 02:27:13,921
O'Brien's the co-host I'm gene Steinberg

3429
02:27:20,600 --> 02:27:17,431
trying to hold it all together so now in

3430
02:27:22,571 --> 02:27:20,610
the 21st century in the second decade to

3431
02:27:26,361 --> 02:27:22,581
date what do you think is the most

3432
02:27:29,151 --> 02:27:26,371
important issue in power politics the

3433
02:27:39,381 --> 02:27:29,161
same ones of old or new ones oh it's the

3434
02:27:41,871 --> 02:27:39,391
rapture well I think we are you know I

3435
02:27:43,911 --> 02:27:41,881
think there's nobody has said anything

3436
02:27:45,921 --> 02:27:43,921
about the pacing of the rapture

3437
02:27:47,631 --> 02:27:45,931
I think the rapture started on Saturday

3438
02:27:51,861 --> 02:27:47,641
and that everybody is going to be lifted

3439
02:27:54,951 --> 02:27:51,871
up into heaven is slowly fading away but

3440
02:27:57,231 --> 02:27:54,961
in imperceptible increments but how long

3441
02:27:58,850 --> 02:27:57,241
will it take them like about 25 years I

3442
02:28:01,640 --> 02:27:58,860
think it's supposed to continue through

3443
02:28:04,191 --> 02:28:01,650
October it started and time to just

3444
02:28:05,571 --> 02:28:04,201
begun yeah now it's October right so I

3445
02:28:09,680 --> 02:28:05,581
have to look at my hand is my hands

3446
02:28:12,231 --> 02:28:09,690
slightly luminescent transparent I'm

3447
02:28:14,511 --> 02:28:12,241
becoming the invisible man I'm becoming

3448
02:28:15,771 --> 02:28:14,521
Claude Rains I wonder I mean these are

3449
02:28:18,111 --> 02:28:15,781
the worst conspiracies all these

3450
02:28:19,701 --> 02:28:18,121
religious people who pretend that they

3451
02:28:21,171 --> 02:28:19,711
know something and then convince a whole

3452
02:28:22,401 --> 02:28:21,181
bunch of people that they've got the

3453
02:28:24,890 --> 02:28:22,411
secret knowledge about the end of the

3454
02:28:27,831 --> 02:28:24,900
world and where do these dupes come from

3455
02:28:30,411 --> 02:28:27,841
how often do they did this scam have to

3456
02:28:33,171 --> 02:28:30,421
be pulled over a bunch of people

3457
02:28:35,781 --> 02:28:33,181
sometimes I think the only reason that

3458
02:28:37,131 --> 02:28:35,791
they keep recurring and coming back with

3459
02:28:38,751 --> 02:28:37,141
this stuff is not because anybody

3460
02:28:40,791 --> 02:28:38,761
believes it but because people really

3461
02:28:41,810 --> 02:28:40,801
enjoy laughing at it and that they you

3462
02:28:43,791 --> 02:28:41,820
know next one number of people who

3463
02:28:45,501 --> 02:28:43,801
really believe it the fools are they

3464
02:28:49,191 --> 02:28:45,511
realize that don't really exist you know

3465
02:28:54,711 --> 02:28:49,201
they're just a bunch of Oh laughing yeah

3466
02:28:56,600 --> 02:28:54,721
you know but then again you know okay

3467
02:28:58,640 --> 02:28:56,610
let's look at the UFO conspiracy since

3468
02:29:01,131 --> 02:28:58,650
it's been in the periphery of our

3469
02:29:04,220 --> 02:29:01,141
discussions of course with Morrie island

3470
02:29:07,191 --> 02:29:04,230
with all this other stuff so is there

3471
02:29:07,551 --> 02:29:07,201
going to be a wide open break out and

3472
02:29:09,411 --> 02:29:07,561
you

3473
02:29:11,451 --> 02:29:09,421
phone knowledge is only gonna be at the

3474
02:29:12,951 --> 02:29:11,461
periphery you know we think the

3475
02:29:15,501 --> 02:29:12,961
government may know something maybe they

3476
02:29:17,270 --> 02:29:15,511
don't we get all these tantalizing hints

3477
02:29:20,211 --> 02:29:17,280
through the years about these

3478
02:29:21,921 --> 02:29:20,221
conspiracies in interactions maybe JFK

3479
02:29:24,531 --> 02:29:21,931
friendly crisp and all this other stuff

3480
02:29:27,621 --> 02:29:24,541
but can we ever really put it together

3481
02:29:31,461 --> 02:29:27,631
is there gonna be an event not the event

3482
02:29:34,610 --> 02:29:31,471
that NBC show that failed the event an

3483
02:29:36,741 --> 02:29:34,620
event instead I think in the only way it

3484
02:29:40,100 --> 02:29:36,751
really works is through this flow

3485
02:29:41,690 --> 02:29:40,110
accumulation of knowledge to me if you

3486
02:29:44,900 --> 02:29:41,700
know the government came out tomorrow

3487
02:29:47,661 --> 02:29:44,910
and declared of what it knows about UFOs

3488
02:29:50,001 --> 02:29:47,671
and you know this just came forward with

3489
02:29:51,440 --> 02:29:50,011
it it wouldn't be telling me anything

3490
02:29:53,480 --> 02:29:51,450
that I don't already know because I've

3491
02:29:56,720 --> 02:29:53,490
been studying it for years you know

3492
02:29:58,850 --> 02:29:56,730
are you sure that sometimes sometimes I

3493
02:30:01,011 --> 02:29:58,860
forget that they haven't actually come

3494
02:30:02,871 --> 02:30:01,021
out with it you know because it to me

3495
02:30:04,461 --> 02:30:02,881
it's it's not even an article of faith

3496
02:30:06,261 --> 02:30:04,471
it's just a matter of reality that

3497
02:30:07,970 --> 02:30:06,271
there's this UFO phenomenon out there

3498
02:30:09,531 --> 02:30:07,980
the government has an interest you know

3499
02:30:11,871 --> 02:30:09,541
it's accumulated a record it knows

3500
02:30:13,671 --> 02:30:11,881
things you know things you know a formal

3501
02:30:15,020 --> 02:30:13,681
declaration by any given administration

3502
02:30:16,701 --> 02:30:15,030
isn't going to change that one way or

3503
02:30:18,741 --> 02:30:16,711
another yeah that's what John Alexander

3504
02:30:22,031 --> 02:30:18,751
said on the show here a few few weeks

3505
02:30:24,980 --> 02:30:22,041
back he said the government's already

3506
02:30:28,491 --> 02:30:24,990
disclosing so you know he thinks it's a

3507
02:30:30,890 --> 02:30:28,501
slow it's a slow kind of tiptoe process

3508
02:30:32,810 --> 02:30:30,900
that's going on as opposed to say big

3509
02:30:35,541 --> 02:30:32,820
announcement I read an interesting

3510
02:30:39,100 --> 02:30:35,551
article today Alfred Webber now is

3511
02:30:43,041 --> 02:30:39,110
claiming that Obama is going to create

3512
02:30:45,890 --> 02:30:43,051
Armageddon by by attacking the good ETS

3513
02:30:49,430 --> 02:30:45,900
on on the behest of the bad ETS and so

3514
02:30:51,741 --> 02:30:49,440
now it's gonna be an ET war which is

3515
02:30:53,751 --> 02:30:51,751
actually the biblical you know

3516
02:30:56,511 --> 02:30:53,761
revelations the prophecy of Revelations

3517
02:30:58,400 --> 02:30:56,521
which I don't know where these people

3518
02:31:00,621 --> 02:30:58,410
come up with this stuff it's pretty

3519
02:31:02,961 --> 02:31:00,631
entertaining have you ever had Nick

3520
02:31:05,871 --> 02:31:02,971
Redfern on the show reg Nikoli he's one

3521
02:31:07,820 --> 02:31:05,881
of our guest co-hosts yeah well his

3522
02:31:10,610 --> 02:31:07,830
latest one of his latest book the guy

3523
02:31:12,621 --> 02:31:10,620
produces so many I lose track but it is

3524
02:31:17,490 --> 02:31:12,631
about this click in within the military

3525
02:31:22,710 --> 02:31:17,500
that that believe UFOs are actually

3526
02:31:27,150 --> 02:31:22,720
the Collins elite yeah very good Redfern

3527
02:31:29,160 --> 02:31:27,160
and Greg bishops and a couple of other

3528
02:31:31,290 --> 02:31:29,170
people are all of this this mindset

3529
02:31:32,610 --> 02:31:31,300
where they think the real fools out

3530
02:31:34,970 --> 02:31:32,620
there the useful adjusts are the ones

3531
02:31:37,050 --> 02:31:34,980
that keep hyping the extra-terrestrial

3532
02:31:39,200 --> 02:31:37,060
hypothesis you know and that there are

3533
02:31:41,610 --> 02:31:39,210
better things to consider and my take is

3534
02:31:43,350 --> 02:31:41,620
better things to consider demons from

3535
02:31:46,580 --> 02:31:43,360
hell I mean that's the more credible to

3536
02:31:48,990 --> 02:31:46,590
you than extraterrestrials from space

3537
02:31:51,630 --> 02:31:49,000
the book is called by the way from Nick

3538
02:31:53,670 --> 02:31:51,640
Redfern final advance and the secret

3539
02:31:55,590 --> 02:31:53,680
government group on demonic UFOs in the

3540
02:31:57,180 --> 02:31:55,600
afterlife by the way Nick is also

3541
02:31:59,100 --> 02:31:57,190
working on a three men in black book and

3542
02:32:01,710 --> 02:31:59,110
we'll have a discussion about that book

3543
02:32:03,240 --> 02:32:01,720
in the next few weeks so there you go

3544
02:32:05,970 --> 02:32:03,250
that's the plug for Nick Redfern we'll

3545
02:32:07,650 --> 02:32:05,980
go back to plugging ken Thomas now well

3546
02:32:09,270 --> 02:32:07,660
you know Nick's a friend of mine I think

3547
02:32:12,330 --> 02:32:09,280
he's great and I'm looking forward to

3548
02:32:15,600 --> 02:32:12,340
his men in black book although that one

3549
02:32:16,860 --> 02:32:15,610
and the one that the Jim Keith one this

3550
02:32:18,840 --> 02:32:16,870
has been reprinted I mean this is all

3551
02:32:20,640 --> 02:32:18,850
obviously talked about your

3552
02:32:22,680 --> 02:32:20,650
manipulations Will Smith is doing a

3553
02:32:24,930 --> 02:32:22,690
third men and black movie and they want

3554
02:32:27,030 --> 02:32:24,940
to take advantage of that so boom all of

3555
02:32:28,980 --> 02:32:27,040
a sudden we got man a black boy okay I

3556
02:32:32,550 --> 02:32:28,990
think Tommy Lee Jones is coming back too

3557
02:32:34,410 --> 02:32:32,560
right yes yes yes although apparently

3558
02:32:37,280 --> 02:32:34,420
they go back actually it's weird and go

3559
02:32:39,150 --> 02:32:37,290
back to 1968 the time of fredchristman

3560
02:32:41,190 --> 02:32:39,160
prosecution by Jim Garrison and

3561
02:32:43,590 --> 02:32:41,200
apparently Tommy Lee Jones is replaced

3562
02:32:46,560 --> 02:32:43,600
by James Boland or something the earlier

3563
02:32:48,060 --> 02:32:46,570
version of him it's Rip Torn gonna be

3564
02:32:50,550 --> 02:32:48,070
back in and he's the guy of course is

3565
02:32:52,650 --> 02:32:50,560
the manager of the men in black and of

3566
02:32:58,170 --> 02:32:52,660
course he's had all these legal problems

3567
02:33:01,050 --> 02:32:58,180
personally I think no record is still

3568
02:33:03,150 --> 02:33:01,060
alive is he okay Rip Torn real name real

3569
02:33:07,950 --> 02:33:03,160
first name is Elmore believe it or not

3570
02:33:13,170 --> 02:33:07,960
Rip Torn he basically he pleaded guilty

3571
02:33:16,290 --> 02:33:13,180
in 2010 on charges related to an arrest

3572
02:33:22,970 --> 02:33:16,300
in which police found him drunk and a

3573
02:33:27,540 --> 02:33:25,920
sounds like he was ripped he was given a

3574
02:33:30,030 --> 02:33:27,550
suspended two-and-a-half year sentence

3575
02:33:31,140 --> 02:33:30,040
he cannot possess firearms during his

3576
02:33:33,360 --> 02:33:31,150
three-year probate

3577
02:33:36,570 --> 02:33:33,370
period and will be subject to random

3578
02:33:38,850 --> 02:33:36,580
drug and alcohol testing well it says

3579
02:33:41,791 --> 02:33:38,860
here torn currently reprising his role

3580
02:33:45,660 --> 02:33:41,801
of Z in the Will Smith franchise flick

3581
02:33:48,780 --> 02:33:45,670
men in black 3 he'll be back

3582
02:33:51,390 --> 02:33:48,790
alright I'm glad we didn't lose him no

3583
02:33:53,160 --> 02:33:51,400
that's good to have and here's her

3584
02:33:55,980 --> 02:33:53,170
second cousin is the actress

3585
02:33:57,751 --> 02:33:55,990
Spacek by the way there you go trivia

3586
02:34:00,360 --> 02:33:57,761
time Ken Thomas we have a couple of

3587
02:34:02,280 --> 02:34:00,370
minutes left tell us briefly about where

3588
02:34:04,110 --> 02:34:02,290
listeners can find out more of your

3589
02:34:05,631 --> 02:34:04,120
stuff and about your projects that they

3590
02:34:09,871 --> 02:34:05,641
really need to check out

3591
02:34:11,520 --> 02:34:09,881
okay well steam shovel press comm is the

3592
02:34:13,680 --> 02:34:11,530
main contact point I have on their

3593
02:34:16,740 --> 02:34:13,690
regular column now called pair of

3594
02:34:18,360 --> 02:34:16,750
politics offhand and it was supposed to

3595
02:34:20,400 --> 02:34:18,370
be daily but I realize I can't do it

3596
02:34:23,280 --> 02:34:20,410
daily but every other day maybe weekly I

3597
02:34:25,761 --> 02:34:23,290
put a one or two or three line and quit

3598
02:34:29,251 --> 02:34:25,771
usually some kind of smart aleck ething

3599
02:34:31,591 --> 02:34:29,261
humor related or a link to an

3600
02:34:33,180 --> 02:34:31,601
interesting news story having to do with

3601
02:34:35,520 --> 02:34:33,190
current pair politics but also from

3602
02:34:38,310 --> 02:34:35,530
there you can get the whole product line

3603
02:34:40,261 --> 02:34:38,320
I mentioned before the main book JFK and

3604
02:34:43,230 --> 02:34:40,271
USO from Farrell house which you could

3605
02:34:45,631 --> 02:34:43,240
also get at feral house calm there's a

3606
02:34:48,060 --> 02:34:45,641
PDF only electronic book called popular

3607
02:34:50,310 --> 02:34:48,070
parrot politics there's essays about my

3608
02:34:51,871 --> 02:34:50,320
life and they conspiracy underground

3609
02:34:54,961 --> 02:34:51,881
that you can get through steam shell

3610
02:34:57,480 --> 02:34:54,971
crestcom there's a DVD of my appearance

3611
02:35:00,180 --> 02:34:57,490
with Timothy Leary called cafe chaos

3612
02:35:02,810 --> 02:35:00,190
that's available I wrote the forward to

3613
02:35:06,390 --> 02:35:02,820
this book case book on the men in black

3614
02:35:08,310 --> 02:35:06,400
which you can get from AUP I also wrote

3615
02:35:11,280 --> 02:35:08,320
a book on Berlin chapter on Nazis in

3616
02:35:13,470 --> 02:35:11,290
UFOs for ten Beckley's latest reprint of

3617
02:35:15,930 --> 02:35:13,480
the book by the way AUP is Adventures

3618
02:35:17,730 --> 02:35:15,940
unlimited press that's of course David

3619
02:35:20,551 --> 02:35:17,740
Hansard Childress's to publisher go

3620
02:35:22,831 --> 02:35:20,561
ahead that's right and and Timothy Beck

3621
02:35:24,930 --> 02:35:22,841
leaves the publisher of to hell on back

3622
02:35:28,230 --> 02:35:24,940
a round trip to hell and back and a

3623
02:35:31,560 --> 02:35:28,240
flying saucer so I'm a really usually a

3624
02:35:33,450 --> 02:35:31,570
very busy guy knocking it out for people

3625
02:35:38,220 --> 02:35:33,460
there's a new Facebook page like I

3626
02:35:40,711 --> 02:35:38,230
mentioned for steam shovel press and all

3627
02:35:44,791 --> 02:35:40,721
of that again the main is for the book

3628
02:35:46,621 --> 02:35:44,801
JFK and UFO Sarah house calm or Amazon

3629
02:35:49,350 --> 02:35:46,631
there's a look at pedia page on me out

3630
02:35:50,701 --> 02:35:49,360
there to some things on YouTube some of

3631
02:35:54,060 --> 02:35:50,711
my lectures and stuff up here on YouTube

3632
02:35:57,871 --> 02:35:54,070
so laughter you're active in the current

3633
02:35:59,850 --> 02:35:57,881
idea that exactly right that keeps you

3634
02:36:03,060 --> 02:35:59,860
real busy and you even have a day job

3635
02:36:05,100 --> 02:36:03,070
you keep a day job after all this I do

3636
02:36:06,991 --> 02:36:05,110
indeed yeah what is your day job for

3637
02:36:09,001 --> 02:36:07,001
listeners who want to know I am an

3638
02:36:10,741 --> 02:36:09,011
archivist I work as a Fed in archives at

3639
02:36:13,411 --> 02:36:10,751
a university it's basically the same

3640
02:36:16,411 --> 02:36:13,421
work only it's kind of less interesting

3641
02:36:18,541 --> 02:36:16,421
during the day here's the archivist by

3642
02:36:20,100 --> 02:36:18,551
day conspirators there's by night thing

3643
02:36:22,711 --> 02:36:20,110
as I do a lot of traveling and lecturing

3644
02:36:24,661 --> 02:36:22,721
to if anybody is interested in getting

3645
02:36:27,121 --> 02:36:24,671
the lecture on these topics be in

3646
02:36:29,671 --> 02:36:27,131
contact I just got back from Hartford

3647
02:36:32,131 --> 02:36:29,681
Connecticut and prior to that I was in

3648
02:36:35,671 --> 02:36:32,141
Atlanta and then prior to that I've been

3649
02:36:37,371 --> 02:36:35,681
Bath England world traveler I tell you

3650
02:36:40,291 --> 02:36:37,381
what we should also remind our listeners

3651
02:36:43,201 --> 02:36:40,301
that Chris O'Brien has his great site

3652
02:36:44,701 --> 02:36:43,211
our strange planet calm which we're

3653
02:36:47,761 --> 02:36:44,711
trying to redesign for him and it will

3654
02:36:49,980 --> 02:36:47,771
be done shortly and from Chris and

3655
02:37:08,719 --> 02:36:49,990
myself Ken Thomas thank you so much for

3656
02:37:13,830 --> 02:37:11,429
is a calibrated presentation of making

3657
02:37:16,090 --> 02:37:13,840
the impossible incorporated tune in next

3658
02:37:17,550 --> 02:37:16,100
week for a new adventure M